Barung; weapon, tool or tourist piece?

[KuKulzA28]

by the kai I believe I replied you email, though i am very late

Originally Posted by kai

There are clear indications that traditional Moro bladesmithing has gone through a severe bottleneck during the 20th century and some may even argue that it has gone extinct (obviously, much of the knowledge got lost).

Bottleneck due to the common reasons of lesser demand for traditional blades or to do with wars and such? I know many traditional knife-makers around the world have been supplanted by the knife/machete-factory and the firearm... In Taiwan, the majority of the Aboriginal knife-makers are from Copper-gate village, and have all learnt it from one of the few surviving smiths... the others probably did not pass the art on as they felt it was useless to their people. Nowadays the headhunting knives find a niche as a cultural artifact and mountain survival machete. Would that be what is happening in Sulu and Mindanao?

Originally Posted by kai

However, the current panday in Mindanao are getting better (e. g. a separate gangya has been the rule for decent new examples for quite some years) and it is becoming increasingly difficult to distinguish antique kris from some newly produced and artificially patinated ones. Aesthetically, the craftmanship still can't compare with good traditional examples from the early 20th century and I also can't vouch for their balance; I have yet to see a traditionally laminated new piece. However, I'm sure that these blades would do their job and wouldn't want to be of the receiving end of any of the newly produced pieces, too.

That is good news. I occasionally see modern-made Moro weapons from the Philippines on sale, but since I cannot hold and test the blade, its hard to tell if they are good blades, or just attractive fittings with a metal piece... Some are obviously Luzon-made like you said... some are even from Pakistan (which in conjunction with India and China, seems to be a big manufacturing place for traditional blades).

I many cases I actually prefer a good modern-made blade...
but good modern-made barongs, made by Moros, seem harder to find than antiques...

Originally Posted by migueldiaz

I'm not sure also whether in the recent past (10 to 20 years ago), laminated blades are still being made by Moro bladesmiths.

It appears though that earlier (30 or so years ago), the blades are still laminated. The pic below is from a 1970s Filipino book, on an article on Filipino bladesmithing.

Nice picture... and fascinating... Mr. Quirino's Crossing the Sulu Seas does show laminated blades and a kris being forged- that was in 1988 or a little later. As this is 2009, that was only 21 years ago, so at least a few folks in Sulu most still know the art.... but a lot can happen in 20 years.

[KuKulzA28]

I decided to some research, although I don't have the blessing of location as some Filipino/Moro forum members might have.

I found a dealer. I cannot say who due to forum rules. I don't want to be banned for bringing up a dealer, I've already had 2 strikes out of my own stupidity. I found what he said interesting. He said that the Maranao blacksmiths he works with arrive every month or two to drop off their work. It seems that sometimes they scavenge old blades, and repair them or give new sheaths or embellish their fittings. The fact he noted his wares aren't the flimsy tourist type and that he candidly stated "the quality of steel used on old/antique swords are far superior than the new ones. Although I also sell some new pieces that have very solid blades, the feel and sound when you flick the blade of an original is different" lead me to believe what he says is true. Perhaps I'll find out for myself...
But I may not be able to tell the different since, unlike a few of you, I don't have and never did have a lot of barongs to handle and note the variation between modern and antique... used to have one antique and one modern-made... the antique I guessed to be recent due to a more slender blade (WW2?) and square-ish junggayan - but I am no expert. I think I'd probably be easily fooled anyways.

I hope my research has shed some light on the state of Moro blademsithing... perhaps you guys all know already, I wouldn't be surprised


The dealer's words seems to, in some way, echo David's

Originally Posted by David

I am sure that many if not all of these blade (i say blades but we don't really see them in these pictures and videos, just the dress) are fully functional and have utilitarian purpose. Most are probably recent blades, but some could be remounted old blades for all we know. After all, we don't really see them. But i think the bottom line really is that the barong and the kris are both deeply symbolic weapons to the Moros and carrying these smaller examples is no doubt meant to express this symbolic relationship. Obviously with automatic weapons and rocket launches on their shoulders these blades are no longer meant to be their main weapons as they once were. At smaller size they maintain the tradition and history of the Moro warrior and are probably pretty effective as brush cutters and utility knives.

In addition to that, their market is probably not the Moro warrior but the collector and the martial artist - occasionally an actual user

[migueldiaz]

Still on contemporary use of blades among Moros, the Phil. military had a skirmish recently with Moro rebels.

A newspaper report mentioned this about the Moro leader who was one of the seven Moro casualties:

"Authorities identified the group’s leader [Abdullah Abdurajak] through his kris and .45 cal. pistol, which are known symbols of authority among Muslim groups."

Another newspaper article said that aside from high-powered arms, the soldiers also collected blades from the seven dead Moro rebels.

Looks like blades are still very much in use on both sides ...

[KuKulzA28]

Originally Posted by migueldiaz

Still on contemporary use of blades among Moros, the Phil. military had a skirmish recently with Moro rebels.

A newspaper report mentioned this about the Moro leader who was one of the seven Moro casualties:

"Authorities identified the group’s leader [Abdullah Abdurajak] through his kris and .45 cal. pistol, which are known symbols of authority among Muslim groups."

Another newspaper article said that aside from high-powered arms, the soldiers also collected blades from the seven dead Moro rebels.

Looks like blades are still very much in use on both sides ...

wow... figures, .45 and kris, deadly weapons both of them

Thanks for reviving this thread, I thought interest had died off.

[Battara]

Oh no the interest is still alive, especially since the PI Armed Forces train for combat with ginuting.

[wilked aka Khun Deng]

Glad you brought it back up also as I missed it. The blade originally in question is as migeldiaz noted a modern pira. Common in markets and throughout the Sulu archipelago now days. I actually have one with a horse hoof handle that was throw in the trash at our camp (a rescue operation for me). They run about 400 pesos or $8 at the market and surprisingly enough, most having been made from blanks, all I saw were heat-treated. BTW the ASG is concentrated in Jolo and Basilan (islands in the Sulu archipelago) for location reference.

Yes most soldiers of every persuasion carry a knife and the modern pira is quite capable. Heat treated and sharp enough for small work, great for whacking down the needed branches for a quick lean-to or clearing an overgrown trail and still heavy enough to split open a coconut, yet deadly in close combat (though most engagements are at sight distance 100m or less in the canopy - Tausugs are notoriously bad shots).

We've already discussed the .45 cal in previous posts as the status symbol der jur for most in Southern Mindanao, shooting clubs abound and if you are anybody you belong to one and compete regularly. Lady Ann, the Vice Governor of Jolo and owner of one of the most impressive tricked out .45s I've seen is quite the shot. Extended mags are a must!

As for Pandys, they still exist in Jolo but most of their work is relegated to mass quantity stuff, though I did meet one in Indanan who said he still does the traditional stuff and does the occasional repair of a family heirloom.

I had a scabbard made for an old barong I picked up there and while solid the craftsmanship wasn't the same quality as the others I have- the repair of the silver work however was top notch - single instance perhaps.

While in Central Mindanao while I asked around continually (Cotobato and Maguindanao) I couldn't find a single pandy or any old pieces that anyone would show much less offer for sale -disappointing.

[migueldiaz]

Thanks for those info, Dan

I was just wondering, have you had the chance to see Ilaga militiamen in your travels to Mindanao?

The 2008 pics below show Ilaga militia of Cotabato in Mindanao. The pics are not mine incidentally (and I haven't met an Ilaga before).

I ask because of the historical significance of the relationship between the Ilagas and the Moros. The Ilagas are Visayans (from Panay/ Negros) who migrated to Mindanao to settle there.

And given that Ilagas (who are allied with the government) are militants like the Moros, their relationship has always been strained to put it mildly.

My query is as to whether the Ilagas still carry edged weapons with them up to now (e.g., tenegre or ginunting, like their forefathers did), in the same manner that Moro rebels still carry kris and barong up to this day.

I was reviewing the pics below but I can't find any sign of those blades ...