Shastarvidiya video

Sikh_soldier · 28th June 2009, 10:58 PM

Hi Fearn,

I have not personally trained in armed combat, my main focus area of martial arts training has been Muay Thai, but I would like to thank you for a very interesting and intelligent insight. I have been aware of Shastar Vidya for a while now, and have seed a few demonstrations, but never looked at it in that way. I suppose the difficulty in all martial arts which involve near fatal or fatal moves is practicing them.

Bally

fearn · 29th June 2009, 05:04 AM

Glad I could help.

So far as the Khukuris go, I've been thinking about it, and I'm trying to think up some good, no to expensive cutting tests to see how well the khuks work on draw cuts. Tomatoes come to mind. If I can slice a tomato cleanly, I'll start thinking that some of those slices would work.

As KuKulz and Bally pointed out, there are some issues with training with weapons with unarmored opponents. I'm not deriding miming the blows for safety's sake. I'm just saying that it would be good to include breaking or cutting practice, so that the people actually doing the training know how to apply power as well as be accurate.

Best,

F

KuKulzA28 · 29th June 2009, 11:01 AM

Just some thoughts on practicing lethal weapons.

In the old days, and sometimes now, there was an initial stage of wood/reed/bamboo practice swords/sticks to get the flow and angles necessary to learn the sword. This can be seen is various cultures, but more well-known in Taiwanese and Filipino aboriginal fighting. Often a sword was expensive enough to make, let alone making realistic metal training swords.
The Chinese martial artist, Shifu Kang Zhi Qiang (Mantis Boxing), was covered in scars from slashes and thrusts by dao, qiang, etc. He was born in 1949 in Shandong, so it is understandable that the PROC was in its infancy at the time and the crack down on martial artists and the subsequent acceleration in decline (was already declining) didn't occur until later in his life time. He definitely trained the hardcore way with real weapons. Interestingly his favorite weapon was the "Six-harmonies club". The only harmonies I can think of is bruise, concussion, internal bleeding, fracture, broken bones, death. 6-harmonies probably has to do with Chinese culture and beliefs...
In many of the kalaripayattu videos out there, the students learn to spar with real weapons with real speed. Granted their goal is not to kill each other with sharp weapons, only to sharpen skills. Still though, it's impossible that accidents don't occur... some kalaripayattu practitioners and most likely their gurus have scars from live training...

fearn · 29th June 2009, 05:41 PM

The six harmonies is a basic concept in Tai Chi training, and I think it's found in the Six Harmonies Praying Mantis style, which is probably where the "six harmonies club" (aka staff) got its name.

They are:

externally:
1. Hands harmonize with feet
2. Elbows harmonize with knees
3. Shoulders harmonize with hips

internally:
1. mind harmonizes with intent
2. intent harmonizes with energy
3. energy harmonizes with force

This may sound mystical, but it's a basic way of saying that you need to get your whole posture right so that you can use the big muscles in your legs, along with gravity, to strike effectively without hurting yourself.

F

KuKulzA28 · 29th June 2009, 06:09 PM

Sounds like a very Chinese way of describing proper posture!

I ought to know more about my culture and related martial arts...

kronckew · 29th June 2009, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fearn

Glad I could help.

So far as the Khukuris go, I've been thinking about it, and I'm trying to think up some good, no to expensive cutting tests to see how well the khuks work on draw cuts. Tomatoes come to mind. If I can slice a tomato cleanly, I'll start thinking that some of those slices would work.
...

have a look:
Khukuri in the kitchen

fearn · 29th June 2009, 07:02 PM

You know, Kronckew, I was just thinking about that video. Since I have an HI WWII khukuri (the one in the video), can I say that those cuts are harder than they look, because the blade is so wide? This guy is impressive.

That said, I'm not totally convinced, because I have done most of the work he shows (onions, peppers, pineapple, salmon) with a Chinese cleaver that was too dull to slice a tomato. As I said, I need to try slicing with a khukuri just to see how well it does with a draw cut.

The other thing I've found with HI khukuris is that some of them come with a long, thin edge. This is great for cutting light stuff, but it leads to some impressive dings when you try cutting wood, let alone bone. That's actually one of the things I'm not sure about in martial terms. If you put an axe-like edge on a khukuri so that it will go through a WWI helmet (to fit the legend), will it be able (for example) to cut someone's throat by slicing? That's what I'm hoping to test, when I get a chance. Not by cutting throats, but thanks to Steve Ferguson, I've got khukuris with two different edge geometries, and I'm hoping to do some comparison testing. I know how they do on wood, but how do they do in the kitchen? I'll let you know when I get the time to experiment.

Best,

F

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28th June 2009, 10:58 PM	#1
Sikh_soldier Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 87	Hi Fearn, I have not personally trained in armed combat, my main focus area of martial arts training has been Muay Thai, but I would like to thank you for a very interesting and intelligent insight. I have been aware of Shastar Vidya for a while now, and have seed a few demonstrations, but never looked at it in that way. I suppose the difficulty in all martial arts which involve near fatal or fatal moves is practicing them. Bally

29th June 2009, 05:04 AM	#2
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Glad I could help. So far as the Khukuris go, I've been thinking about it, and I'm trying to think up some good, no to expensive cutting tests to see how well the khuks work on draw cuts. Tomatoes come to mind. If I can slice a tomato cleanly, I'll start thinking that some of those slices would work. As KuKulz and Bally pointed out, there are some issues with training with weapons with unarmored opponents. I'm not deriding miming the blows for safety's sake. I'm just saying that it would be good to include breaking or cutting practice, so that the people actually doing the training know how to apply power as well as be accurate. Best, F

29th June 2009, 11:01 AM	#3
KuKulzA28 Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: between work and sleep Posts: 731	Just some thoughts on practicing lethal weapons. In the old days, and sometimes now, there was an initial stage of wood/reed/bamboo practice swords/sticks to get the flow and angles necessary to learn the sword. This can be seen is various cultures, but more well-known in Taiwanese and Filipino aboriginal fighting. Often a sword was expensive enough to make, let alone making realistic metal training swords. The Chinese martial artist, Shifu Kang Zhi Qiang (Mantis Boxing), was covered in scars from slashes and thrusts by dao, qiang, etc. He was born in 1949 in Shandong, so it is understandable that the PROC was in its infancy at the time and the crack down on martial artists and the subsequent acceleration in decline (was already declining) didn't occur until later in his life time. He definitely trained the hardcore way with real weapons. Interestingly his favorite weapon was the "Six-harmonies club". The only harmonies I can think of is bruise, concussion, internal bleeding, fracture, broken bones, death. 6-harmonies probably has to do with Chinese culture and beliefs... In many of the kalaripayattu videos out there, the students learn to spar with real weapons with real speed. Granted their goal is not to kill each other with sharp weapons, only to sharpen skills. Still though, it's impossible that accidents don't occur... some kalaripayattu practitioners and most likely their gurus have scars from live training...

29th June 2009, 05:41 PM	#4
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	The six harmonies is a basic concept in Tai Chi training, and I think it's found in the Six Harmonies Praying Mantis style, which is probably where the "six harmonies club" (aka staff) got its name. They are: externally: 1. Hands harmonize with feet 2. Elbows harmonize with knees 3. Shoulders harmonize with hips internally: 1. mind harmonizes with intent 2. intent harmonizes with energy 3. energy harmonizes with force This may sound mystical, but it's a basic way of saying that you need to get your whole posture right so that you can use the big muscles in your legs, along with gravity, to strike effectively without hurting yourself. F

29th June 2009, 06:09 PM	#5
KuKulzA28 Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: between work and sleep Posts: 731	Sounds like a very Chinese way of describing proper posture! I ought to know more about my culture and related martial arts...

29th June 2009, 07:02 PM	#7
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	You know, Kronckew, I was just thinking about that video. Since I have an HI WWII khukuri (the one in the video), can I say that those cuts are harder than they look, because the blade is so wide? This guy is impressive. That said, I'm not totally convinced, because I have done most of the work he shows (onions, peppers, pineapple, salmon) with a Chinese cleaver that was too dull to slice a tomato. As I said, I need to try slicing with a khukuri just to see how well it does with a draw cut. The other thing I've found with HI khukuris is that some of them come with a long, thin edge. This is great for cutting light stuff, but it leads to some impressive dings when you try cutting wood, let alone bone. That's actually one of the things I'm not sure about in martial terms. If you put an axe-like edge on a khukuri so that it will go through a WWI helmet (to fit the legend), will it be able (for example) to cut someone's throat by slicing? That's what I'm hoping to test, when I get a chance. Not by cutting throats, but thanks to Steve Ferguson, I've got khukuris with two different edge geometries, and I'm hoping to do some comparison testing. I know how they do on wood, but how do they do in the kitchen? I'll let you know when I get the time to experiment. Best, F