Please help to identify this dagger

DhaDha · 28th April 2009, 10:26 PM

Nepali and nice, I think. I've seen kukris with the same style nails in the handle. The fullers also remind me of a Tin Chirra (Tinchira) kukri blade. I can dig up photos of both if you like...

What is the wrap around the handle made out of? Leather?

inveterate · 29th April 2009, 01:57 AM

Afghani ?

Tatyana Dianova · 29th April 2009, 08:07 AM

Hi all and thank you for the feedback.
Jens, I have erroneously put this thread on the Keris Forum. I was simply looking through its entries and started the new thread there – thank you David for moving the thread :-) My books gave me no answer; I hope that you, Jens, will be luckier :-)
The scabbard looks absolutely Nepali, so I can easily agree with DhaDha and his Nepali attribution, but similar blade and handle photos of Nepali pieces will be much appreciated. Are there any guesses concerning dagger age? The handle is made of one piece of rosewood and is not wrapped in any way. The cross pattern is simply cut in this wood.
Inveterate, I believe I’ve seen once a late 19th century Afghani short sword (similar to military issue) with similar cross guard, but since I have no pictures, I can be wrong…

inveterate · 29th April 2009, 08:14 AM

Tatyana, I have a pic or two somewhere of similar blade styles purporting to be Afghan pieces...another thing that leads me to my Afghan guess is the Nepali type scabbard these were certainly made in Afghanistan for Afghan made Kukri...of course just hunch's. Cheers Rod

Tatyana Dianova · 29th April 2009, 02:35 PM

Hi Rod,
I have never heard about Afghani Kukris… It would be very nice if you will post some examples of them here, as well as the mentioned Afghani pieces. I often rely on the general feeling too when attributing pieces, but knowledge is better

DhaDha · 29th April 2009, 05:06 PM

Inveterate, I think your hunches are pretty good. I also see the Afghani styles at work. Well, now that you mention it

When I first looked at this one it reminded me of this:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...t=nepali+bowie

Attached is a pic of a Kukri with similar fullers.

Could be a combo of different cultures...

inveterate · 29th April 2009, 08:56 PM

Tatyana, As a result of my complete technical ineptitude I have never worked out how to post pics on this Forum, if you PM me your email address I will be happy to send you some pics of Afghan Kukri with blade styles showing similarities to that which you have shown , alternatively you could search Afghan on the www.ikrhs.com forum. Cheers Rod

Jim McDougall · 1st May 2009, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tatyana Dianova

Hi Rod,
I have never heard about Afghani Kukris… It would be very nice if you will post some examples of them here, as well as the mentioned Afghani pieces. I often rely on the general feeling too when attributing pieces, but knowledge is better

I must say I have never really been aware of Afghan kukris either, but such examples I would imagine would be esoteric enough for knowledge of them to be relegated to those who study and specialize in kukris. I am wondering if these would be related to the 1880's-turn of the century, when the Afghan government began to adopt many British influences, especially in military fashion. In fact, now that I think of it, those distinct Afghan military swords with European style hilts of the 1880's that were used into the 20th century, also had this deep and dramatic fullering.
I suppose that would present some support for the Afghan attribution as well as the other features noted in the thread.
The Afghan army was not only wearing British 'Albert' helmets, but some wearing kilts as well! It does not seem unlikely that the kukri of the famed Gurkha units would not be of some influence also.

I still cannot get the Transcaucasian thoughts out of my mind though!

So far the only such examples I have found have had some type of either splayed or horned pommel hilts, with which the splayed form does not entirely discount the 'fishtail' effect.

All best regards,
Jim

Tatyana Dianova · 1st May 2009, 08:56 PM

Jim, it is really an exiting and wonderful Trancaucasian theory! It would be very interesting if you will find something in your books. Thank you a lot!
I wasn’t posting for a long time because I wasn’t able to upload any pictures… This month I have finally changed my Internet provider – and now upload works!!!
Rod has sent me today another interesting picture of ‘a few Kukri with cross guards, these are early tourist pieces (1920-1940) from Northern India’

29th April 2009, 05:06 PM	#6
DhaDha Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 178	Inveterate, I think your hunches are pretty good. I also see the Afghani styles at work. Well, now that you mention it When I first looked at this one it reminded me of this: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...t=nepali+bowie Attached is a pic of a Kukri with similar fullers. Could be a combo of different cultures... Attached Images

1st May 2009, 08:56 PM	#9
Tatyana Dianova Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 736	Jim, it is really an exiting and wonderful Trancaucasian theory! It would be very interesting if you will find something in your books. Thank you a lot! I wasn’t posting for a long time because I wasn’t able to upload any pictures… This month I have finally changed my Internet provider – and now upload works!!! Rod has sent me today another interesting picture of ‘a few Kukri with cross guards, these are early tourist pieces (1920-1940) from Northern India’ Attached Images

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28th April 2009, 10:26 PM	#1
DhaDha Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 178	Nepali and nice, I think. I've seen kukris with the same style nails in the handle. The fullers also remind me of a Tin Chirra (Tinchira) kukri blade. I can dig up photos of both if you like... What is the wrap around the handle made out of? Leather?

29th April 2009, 01:57 AM	#2
inveterate Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 58	Afghani ?

29th April 2009, 08:07 AM	#3
Tatyana Dianova Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 736	Hi all and thank you for the feedback. Jens, I have erroneously put this thread on the Keris Forum. I was simply looking through its entries and started the new thread there – thank you David for moving the thread :-) My books gave me no answer; I hope that you, Jens, will be luckier :-) The scabbard looks absolutely Nepali, so I can easily agree with DhaDha and his Nepali attribution, but similar blade and handle photos of Nepali pieces will be much appreciated. Are there any guesses concerning dagger age? The handle is made of one piece of rosewood and is not wrapped in any way. The cross pattern is simply cut in this wood. Inveterate, I believe I’ve seen once a late 19th century Afghani short sword (similar to military issue) with similar cross guard, but since I have no pictures, I can be wrong…

29th April 2009, 08:14 AM	#4
inveterate Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 58	Tatyana, I have a pic or two somewhere of similar blade styles purporting to be Afghan pieces...another thing that leads me to my Afghan guess is the Nepali type scabbard these were certainly made in Afghanistan for Afghan made Kukri...of course just hunch's. Cheers Rod

29th April 2009, 02:35 PM	#5
Tatyana Dianova Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 736	Hi Rod, I have never heard about Afghani Kukris… It would be very nice if you will post some examples of them here, as well as the mentioned Afghani pieces. I often rely on the general feeling too when attributing pieces, but knowledge is better

29th April 2009, 08:56 PM	#7
inveterate Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 58	Tatyana, As a result of my complete technical ineptitude I have never worked out how to post pics on this Forum, if you PM me your email address I will be happy to send you some pics of Afghan Kukri with blade styles showing similarities to that which you have shown , alternatively you could search Afghan on the www.ikrhs.com forum. Cheers Rod