Arabian beauty 1 translation?

RSWORD · 25th April 2005, 12:13 AM

I would classify this as an Arabian Shamshir with much of the silverwork decor commonly found on Arabic swords. The "hook" pommel of the handle does suggest a Syrian influence but I wouldn't say that one feature alone would make me lean towards Syria solely. As you say, perhaps the inscription could bear some insight but unfortunately I am unable to assist with that. The hand motif is most interesting and something I have not run across before. Perhaps it represents a person who held a particular post or rank and that hand symbol symbolizes that office. I bet the inscription might lend some foresight into that regards as it may have a persons name or rank inscribed. Another lovely sword.

M.carter · 25th April 2005, 01:24 PM

Hello Eftihis,

This sword is indeed syrian, typical syrian hilt, crossguard and scabbard, but the blade looks weird. Syrian blades do not have these types of strongly acute tips. I can read most of the script on the scabbard back. I shall soon post what it reads.

EDIT: ahh here, the seventh pic down reads:" Shighil Hilmi Attallah Al-Tirzi Bi-Ghazza sanat (?) hijriya"

Which translates as:" Work of Hilmi Attalah Al-Tirzi in Gaza (gaza??!!) in the year of (I cannot read the date properly) AH"

As this sword was certainly made during Ottoman times, gaza could be logical, as it all was part of Greater Syria "Al-Sham", but Ive never heard of swordmaking in Gaza.

M.carter · 25th April 2005, 01:58 PM

The inscription between the two hangers reads "Jum'a Saleem Al-Shinyoora". Probably the owners name.

You can also see the Ottoman Crescent and Star sign on the hook pommel.

M.carter · 25th April 2005, 02:01 PM

Eftihis, if you can provide us with a closer, higher resolution pic of the indicated part of the inscription below, maybe I can read the date of this sword and when it was made.

Mark · 25th April 2005, 02:44 PM

I finally may have something to contribute to a shamshir discussion! I believe that the rose, which is being held or reached for by the hand, is a Sufic (Sufitic? Of the Sufi) symbol frequently appearing in Sufi poetry. I believe it represents nostalgia, longing for happiness/perfection/purity. Something like that.

M.carter · 25th April 2005, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Bowditch

I finally may have something to contribute to a shamshir discussion! I believe that the rose, which is being held or reached for by the hand, is a Sufic (Sufitic? Of the Sufi) symbol frequently appearing in Sufi poetry. I believe it represents nostalgia, longing for happiness/perfection/purity. Something like that.

Very Probable Mark, as there is a large Suffi population in Syria and that region.

Andrew · 25th April 2005, 06:34 PM

Many thanks for the translation, Mark (Carter).

25th April 2005, 01:24 PM	#2
M.carter Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 176	Hello Eftihis, This sword is indeed syrian, typical syrian hilt, crossguard and scabbard, but the blade looks weird. Syrian blades do not have these types of strongly acute tips. I can read most of the script on the scabbard back. I shall soon post what it reads. EDIT: ahh here, the seventh pic down reads:" Shighil Hilmi Attallah Al-Tirzi Bi-Ghazza sanat (?) hijriya" Which translates as:" Work of Hilmi Attalah Al-Tirzi in Gaza (gaza??!!) in the year of (I cannot read the date properly) AH" As this sword was certainly made during Ottoman times, gaza could be logical, as it all was part of Greater Syria "Al-Sham", but Ive never heard of swordmaking in Gaza. Last edited by M.carter; 25th April 2005 at 01:56 PM.

25th April 2005, 02:01 PM	#4
M.carter Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 176	Eftihis, if you can provide us with a closer, higher resolution pic of the indicated part of the inscription below, maybe I can read the date of this sword and when it was made. Attached Images

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25th April 2005, 12:13 AM	#1
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,098	I would classify this as an Arabian Shamshir with much of the silverwork decor commonly found on Arabic swords. The "hook" pommel of the handle does suggest a Syrian influence but I wouldn't say that one feature alone would make me lean towards Syria solely. As you say, perhaps the inscription could bear some insight but unfortunately I am unable to assist with that. The hand motif is most interesting and something I have not run across before. Perhaps it represents a person who held a particular post or rank and that hand symbol symbolizes that office. I bet the inscription might lend some foresight into that regards as it may have a persons name or rank inscribed. Another lovely sword.

25th April 2005, 01:58 PM	#3
M.carter Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 176	The inscription between the two hangers reads "Jum'a Saleem Al-Shinyoora". Probably the owners name. You can also see the Ottoman Crescent and Star sign on the hook pommel.

25th April 2005, 02:44 PM	#5
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	I finally may have something to contribute to a shamshir discussion! I believe that the rose, which is being held or reached for by the hand, is a Sufic (Sufitic? Of the Sufi) symbol frequently appearing in Sufi poetry. I believe it represents nostalgia, longing for happiness/perfection/purity. Something like that.

25th April 2005, 06:34 PM	#7
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	Many thanks for the translation, Mark (Carter).