Philippine Dagger Just Ended On Ebay

Battara · 3rd February 2009, 02:20 AM

This is an Ilocano dagger. May have been used in a form similar to espada y daga.

Robert · 3rd February 2009, 09:58 PM

Thank you for the identification Jose. I was waiting for it to arrive before posting my thoughts on its origin and who possible made it. Because of not being as knowledgeable as you and others on the forum, I wanted to see the end of the hilt before making my determination.

What are your thoughts on the age of this piece? I was thinking either first or second quarter of the 20th century and hoping for the first.

Thank you again for your help and interest.

Robert

Battara · 4th February 2009, 01:47 AM

As far as age is concerned, I would rather wait for better pictures.

Robert · 4th February 2009, 11:24 PM

Well here are a few more picture. I'm not sure how much better they are though as I was having problems getting any to come out right. The pommel on this is closed ended (the tang does not go through) which seems unusual if this is from Luzon. The guard is steel or iron and the rest of the fittings including the drag on the scabbard are brass. Now that I have the dagger in hand the strange shape of the guard is still a mystery to me. Looks to me that only one section of the turtle shell on the scabbard is actually missing. When I originally looked at it in the auction pictures I thought the entire scabbard might have been covered with it at one time. The grip is well worn wood and you can see in one of the pictures it is actually octagonal in shape and not round as it looks in the original pictures.
Jose, what are your thoughts on the age of this dagger? I'm leaning towards early 20th century myself. My thanks to everyone for your all your interest and help.
Robert

t_c · 5th February 2009, 01:53 AM

Robert is it possible that the guard is made from the base of an old file?
If the dagger was part of an espada y daga (sword and dagger) set, then it was intended to be used as a left-hand weapon and the longer guard may have been designed to serve as a "shelf" of sorts to help pass or parry the opponent's weapon, similar in idea to a main-gauche (hope that takes some of the mystery out of it).

Ferguson · 5th February 2009, 01:58 AM

This may be stupid, but could the guard be used as a pick for the touchhole of a cannon or lantaka?

I think I've seen a guard like that before, but can't remember.

Steve

Battara · 5th February 2009, 02:28 AM

Robert, I would agree with you about the age. Although unusual for a Luzon piece, I have seen end caps on Ilocano daggers before. In fact, my Ilocano piece has a brass end cap.

The cross guard is strange - no idea.

Atlantia · 5th February 2009, 03:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferguson

This may be stupid, but could the guard be used as a pick for the touchhole of a cannon or lantaka?

I think I've seen a guard like that before, but can't remember.

Steve

Hi Steve,
Thats what I was infering in my earlier post. In the ebay pictures it looks like a pick and flat screwdriver, but these closeups show the short side is more just a larger spike.
What made me think the long spike was a tool rather than a offensive is that it seems to be a uniform width for a fair proportion of its length, as though its meant to push into something. (like to clear a touch hole)
Unless we are being too weapon orientated, and it has a civilian use like piercing through the thick skin of some fruit, coconut or similar?

I think it looks great in the new pictures! Better than the ebay ones made it look. Bargain methinks.

Gene

4th February 2009, 11:24 PM	#4
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Well here are a few more picture. I'm not sure how much better they are though as I was having problems getting any to come out right. The pommel on this is closed ended (the tang does not go through) which seems unusual if this is from Luzon. The guard is steel or iron and the rest of the fittings including the drag on the scabbard are brass. Now that I have the dagger in hand the strange shape of the guard is still a mystery to me. Looks to me that only one section of the turtle shell on the scabbard is actually missing. When I originally looked at it in the auction pictures I thought the entire scabbard might have been covered with it at one time. The grip is well worn wood and you can see in one of the pictures it is actually octagonal in shape and not round as it looks in the original pictures. Jose, what are your thoughts on the age of this dagger? I'm leaning towards early 20th century myself. My thanks to everyone for your all your interest and help. Robert Attached Images Last edited by Robert Coleman; 5th February 2009 at 02:47 AM.

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3rd February 2009, 02:20 AM	#1
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	This is an Ilocano dagger. May have been used in a form similar to espada y daga.

3rd February 2009, 09:58 PM	#2
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Thank you for the identification Jose. I was waiting for it to arrive before posting my thoughts on its origin and who possible made it. Because of not being as knowledgeable as you and others on the forum, I wanted to see the end of the hilt before making my determination. What are your thoughts on the age of this piece? I was thinking either first or second quarter of the 20th century and hoping for the first. Thank you again for your help and interest. Robert

4th February 2009, 01:47 AM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	As far as age is concerned, I would rather wait for better pictures.

5th February 2009, 01:53 AM	#5
t_c Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: ca, usa Posts: 92	Robert is it possible that the guard is made from the base of an old file? If the dagger was part of an espada y daga (sword and dagger) set, then it was intended to be used as a left-hand weapon and the longer guard may have been designed to serve as a "shelf" of sorts to help pass or parry the opponent's weapon, similar in idea to a main-gauche (hope that takes some of the mystery out of it).

5th February 2009, 01:58 AM	#6
Ferguson Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kernersville, NC, USA Posts: 793	This may be stupid, but could the guard be used as a pick for the touchhole of a cannon or lantaka? I think I've seen a guard like that before, but can't remember. Steve

5th February 2009, 02:28 AM	#7
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	Robert, I would agree with you about the age. Although unusual for a Luzon piece, I have seen end caps on Ilocano daggers before. In fact, my Ilocano piece has a brass end cap. The cross guard is strange - no idea.