Dredging This Up Exotic Flintlock

ward · 10th January 2009, 07:29 AM

Have seen Balkan guns like this with similar chiseled human figures on the barrel. Can you post closeups? Costumes they are wearing should tell more about origin but it looks from your pics like Balkans, also overall form is Ottoman Empire not Indian. Definitely right though, not a copy.
I didn't see anything like this when I was in Tunisia last year but arms migrated quite a bit along with the men that used them and a lot of mercenaries from Bosnia and Albania served in N. Africa. Again I'd like to see better pics but looks 18th or early 19th c to me. Nice old soldier

kahnjar1 · 10th January 2009, 08:10 AM

Very rust(ic)

Seriously though, I agree it does not look Indian to me either. More Balkan area. Could be European---Belgian?? made for the eastern market. Any marks under the barrel?
Regards Stuart

Pukka Bundook · 10th January 2009, 04:11 PM

I'd go with Balkan or Turkish/Moorish.

If it was European, the style would dictate it was made early to mid 18th Century, but in Turkey and such, this style was made well into the 19th century.
There is nothing wrong with the round barrel and square tang that would say it Isn't European, and the straighted frizzen was quite often used on European arms, yet the overall look and certainly the heavy decoration says Balkan or Turkish to me.
I think the decoration could have been added later, as it's not up to par with the overall looks of the piece.
A good example of ; "now, if it could only talk!"

R.

Rick · 10th January 2009, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ward

Have seen Balkan guns like this with similar chiseled human figures on the barrel. Can you post closeups? Costumes they are wearing should tell more about origin but it looks from your pics like Balkans, also overall form is Ottoman Empire not Indian. Definitely right though, not a copy.
I didn't see anything like this when I was in Tunisia last year but arms migrated quite a bit along with the men that used them and a lot of mercenaries from Bosnia and Albania served in N. Africa. Again I'd like to see better pics but looks 18th or early 19th c to me. Nice old soldier

Closeups Ward .

Thanks !

Rick · 10th January 2009, 09:12 PM

Faces are everywhere; all the spaces between the figures have animals and monsters carved in .

ward · 11th January 2009, 03:03 AM

The bearded face on the breech and the frizzen are what I was looking for,
definitely Balkans. They carved that same face on dagger handles and other things, looks almost like a Viking motif. Who knows, it could be. They were around there at one time.
The clothing the figures are wearing isnt Indian either, could probably identify it by browsing some ethnic dress websites. Early 19th century is probably about right.

Rick · 11th January 2009, 03:56 AM

Thanks Ward, Richard et al .

Anandalal N. · 11th January 2009, 05:09 AM

Just one question. Does the bearded face close to the breech end have a 'third eye' and the one on the frizzen too or is it some other symbolism?

ward · 11th January 2009, 06:05 AM

I think its pretty clear the one on the breech is wearing a helmet.
One on the frizzen, its harder to tell. But a third eye?
Dont see it sorry

10th January 2009, 09:12 PM	#5
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,376	One Last Image Faces are everywhere; all the spaces between the figures have animals and monsters carved in . Attached Images

11th January 2009, 06:05 AM	#9
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	I think its pretty clear the one on the breech is wearing a helmet. One on the frizzen, its harder to tell. But a third eye? Dont see it sorry Last edited by ward; 11th January 2009 at 07:10 AM.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search
Display Modes
Switch to Linear Mode Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

10th January 2009, 07:29 AM	#1
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	Have seen Balkan guns like this with similar chiseled human figures on the barrel. Can you post closeups? Costumes they are wearing should tell more about origin but it looks from your pics like Balkans, also overall form is Ottoman Empire not Indian. Definitely right though, not a copy. I didn't see anything like this when I was in Tunisia last year but arms migrated quite a bit along with the men that used them and a lot of mercenaries from Bosnia and Albania served in N. Africa. Again I'd like to see better pics but looks 18th or early 19th c to me. Nice old soldier

10th January 2009, 08:10 AM	#2
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,811	Very rust(ic) Seriously though, I agree it does not look Indian to me either. More Balkan area. Could be European---Belgian?? made for the eastern market. Any marks under the barrel? Regards Stuart

10th January 2009, 04:11 PM	#3
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	I'd go with Balkan or Turkish/Moorish. If it was European, the style would dictate it was made early to mid 18th Century, but in Turkey and such, this style was made well into the 19th century. There is nothing wrong with the round barrel and square tang that would say it Isn't European, and the straighted frizzen was quite often used on European arms, yet the overall look and certainly the heavy decoration says Balkan or Turkish to me. I think the decoration could have been added later, as it's not up to par with the overall looks of the piece. A good example of ; "now, if it could only talk!" R.

11th January 2009, 03:03 AM	#6
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	The bearded face on the breech and the frizzen are what I was looking for, definitely Balkans. They carved that same face on dagger handles and other things, looks almost like a Viking motif. Who knows, it could be. They were around there at one time. The clothing the figures are wearing isnt Indian either, could probably identify it by browsing some ethnic dress websites. Early 19th century is probably about right.

11th January 2009, 03:56 AM	#7
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,376	Thanks Ward, Richard et al .

11th January 2009, 05:09 AM	#8
Anandalal N. Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 84	Just one question. Does the bearded face close to the breech end have a 'third eye' and the one on the frizzen too or is it some other symbolism?