Bali Hilt ID

Rick · 4th January 2009, 08:15 PM

I'd like to suggest here that we are discussing interpretations of a universal (for lack of a better word) form with some 'strictly defined' attributes; ones that make the form unmistakable like tusks and a trunk ...

Could we posit that these attributes are all that's needed to identify and any variants are simply the Artist's interpretation of different aspects of the same deity ?

IOW, that is Ganesha, just a different aspect .

Found on web:

Forms of Ganesha
The idols and temples of Ganesha are found all over the world. We have archeological evidence to suggest that he was worshipped in some temples of northern India as early as first century AD. The Ganapatyam lists 32 iconic forms of Lord Ganesha of which 16 are considered to be the most popular. They are not different Ganeshas but personification of his various aspects and attributes. There are idols and images of Lord Ganesha corresponding to these 16 forms. In each aspect Ganesha is shown with specific color, shape, posture and a variety of objects in his hands. Ganapathi is also symbolically worshipped in the form of a kumbha consisting of a coconut sitting atop the mouth of a round pot or vessel surrounded by five mango leaves. In some places Ganesha is worshipped in the form of lingas, salagramas and yantras. The swastika is also considered to be a symbol of Ganesha because he is a god of luck and auspiciousness. The sixteen forms of Ganesha are shown below:

Bala Ganapathi
Taruna Ganapati
Bhakti Ganapathi.
Maha Ganapathi
Vira Ganapathi
Sakti Ganapathi
Duvija Ganapathi
Ucchistha Ganapathi
Vighnaraja Ganapathi
Kshira Ganapathi
Lakshmi Ganapathi
Siddhi Ganapathi
Urdhava Ganapathi
Heramba Ganapathi
Vijaya Ganapathi
Niruttha Ganapathi

David · 4th January 2009, 11:53 PM

It would be nice to find a related image for all 32 aspect names.

Rick · 5th January 2009, 01:30 AM

G.I.S. Ganesha ???

Anandalal N. · 5th January 2009, 02:50 AM

I am of course referring to Raksha in general. I have little knowledge of the Raksha on keris hilts.

Here is one aspect of Ganapathi Dyanam from the RUPAMALA - a 11-12 century silpasastra or instruction for workmen/artisans originating from Sri Lanka.

The Dhyana of the Three eyed Ganesha

I bow to the Vigna Rajah, distinguished by an elephant face, with sharp tusks, three eyes, a big belly, having the features of a Bhuta, adored by men and gods, of a red colour, a king of gods, son of Isvara.

Gaja vadana vicitram tikshna dantam trinetram
Brahadudaramasesham bhuta rupam puranam
Amara nara supujyam rakta varnam suresam
Pasupati sutamisam vighna rajam namami

Note the reference to bhuta rupam i.e. the appearance of a Bhuta. Refers back to the earlier discussion of 2006 on this forum where Bhuta Nawasari as a Rakshasa king had ben discussed.

A. G. Maisey · 5th January 2009, 07:53 AM

This is all very edifying, however, here we are talking about Bali.

On Bali the Hindu faith is practiced as "Bali Hindu". It is not mainstream, and I believe that most Brahmin priests from the mainstream would find considerable difference between their interpretation of the faith, and the form practiced in Bali.

In short, in my opinion it is a severe error to try to explain Balinese forms and practices in terms that relate to mainstream Hindu faith.

Most especially in the case of forms, these forms are uniquely Balinese.

As I remarked earlier:- the people who carve these images, particularly the small folk images, such as keris hilts, are not Brahmin priests. They are working cratfmen trying to earn a living. They carve what they hope will sell. Even in the case of a master carver who may have been commissioned to carve an image for a specific client, that master will use an existing pattern and possibly put his own spin on it, but it is extremely unlikely that he will know exactly what the religious import of the carving is.

As for the ogre hilt form.

The word "raksasa" is both Indonesian and Javanese for a giant, mythical ogre.

The female form is "raksasi".

Both these words are generics and refer to a type of being, not a specific being.

There are many variations of form in these ogre hilts, and most especially with the more recent ones, I personally find it virtually impossible to identify any specific character.

Anandalal N. · 5th January 2009, 08:27 AM

Dear Maisey,

Couldn't agree more.

However, the forum may be a good place to at least broadly outline the forms if only to be able discuss them. The published material is confusing with the experts contradicting each other. BY the way on my visit to KL about six months ago the KL Musuem had a large format book on keris written in Malay. Did not get it since it is not my main line and I was not a forum member then. I did visit the National Musuem, the Musuem of Islamic Art and the University Musuem hoping to see a good representative collection of krisses but was usuccessful.

My understanding on Bali is basic. My main liking for the keris lies in its magico spiritual aspects more than utility and aesthetics and the occassional connection to Sri Lanka.

Regards.

Anan.

4th January 2009, 08:15 PM	#1
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	I'd like to suggest here that we are discussing interpretations of a universal (for lack of a better word) form with some 'strictly defined' attributes; ones that make the form unmistakable like tusks and a trunk ... Could we posit that these attributes are all that's needed to identify and any variants are simply the Artist's interpretation of different aspects of the same deity ? IOW, that is Ganesha, just a different aspect . Found on web: Forms of Ganesha The idols and temples of Ganesha are found all over the world. We have archeological evidence to suggest that he was worshipped in some temples of northern India as early as first century AD. The Ganapatyam lists 32 iconic forms of Lord Ganesha of which 16 are considered to be the most popular. They are not different Ganeshas but personification of his various aspects and attributes. There are idols and images of Lord Ganesha corresponding to these 16 forms. In each aspect Ganesha is shown with specific color, shape, posture and a variety of objects in his hands. Ganapathi is also symbolically worshipped in the form of a kumbha consisting of a coconut sitting atop the mouth of a round pot or vessel surrounded by five mango leaves. In some places Ganesha is worshipped in the form of lingas, salagramas and yantras. The swastika is also considered to be a symbol of Ganesha because he is a god of luck and auspiciousness. The sixteen forms of Ganesha are shown below: Bala Ganapathi Taruna Ganapati Bhakti Ganapathi. Maha Ganapathi Vira Ganapathi Sakti Ganapathi Duvija Ganapathi Ucchistha Ganapathi Vighnaraja Ganapathi Kshira Ganapathi Lakshmi Ganapathi Siddhi Ganapathi Urdhava Ganapathi Heramba Ganapathi Vijaya Ganapathi Niruttha Ganapathi Last edited by Rick; 4th January 2009 at 08:29 PM.

5th January 2009, 07:53 AM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,019	This is all very edifying, however, here we are talking about Bali. On Bali the Hindu faith is practiced as "Bali Hindu". It is not mainstream, and I believe that most Brahmin priests from the mainstream would find considerable difference between their interpretation of the faith, and the form practiced in Bali. In short, in my opinion it is a severe error to try to explain Balinese forms and practices in terms that relate to mainstream Hindu faith. Most especially in the case of forms, these forms are uniquely Balinese. As I remarked earlier:- the people who carve these images, particularly the small folk images, such as keris hilts, are not Brahmin priests. They are working cratfmen trying to earn a living. They carve what they hope will sell. Even in the case of a master carver who may have been commissioned to carve an image for a specific client, that master will use an existing pattern and possibly put his own spin on it, but it is extremely unlikely that he will know exactly what the religious import of the carving is. As for the ogre hilt form. The word "raksasa" is both Indonesian and Javanese for a giant, mythical ogre. The female form is "raksasi". Both these words are generics and refer to a type of being, not a specific being. There are many variations of form in these ogre hilts, and most especially with the more recent ones, I personally find it virtually impossible to identify any specific character. Last edited by A. G. Maisey; 5th January 2009 at 11:45 AM. Reason: grammar

5th January 2009, 08:27 AM	#6
Anandalal N. Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 84	Dear Maisey, Couldn't agree more. However, the forum may be a good place to at least broadly outline the forms if only to be able discuss them. The published material is confusing with the experts contradicting each other. BY the way on my visit to KL about six months ago the KL Musuem had a large format book on keris written in Malay. Did not get it since it is not my main line and I was not a forum member then. I did visit the National Musuem, the Musuem of Islamic Art and the University Musuem hoping to see a good representative collection of krisses but was usuccessful. My understanding on Bali is basic. My main liking for the keris lies in its magico spiritual aspects more than utility and aesthetics and the occassional connection to Sri Lanka. Regards. Anan. Last edited by Anandalal N.; 5th January 2009 at 08:38 AM.

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4th January 2009, 11:53 PM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,219	It would be nice to find a related image for all 32 aspect names.

5th January 2009, 01:30 AM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	G.I.S. Ganesha ???

5th January 2009, 02:50 AM	#4
Anandalal N. Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 84	I am of course referring to Raksha in general. I have little knowledge of the Raksha on keris hilts. Here is one aspect of Ganapathi Dyanam from the RUPAMALA - a 11-12 century silpasastra or instruction for workmen/artisans originating from Sri Lanka. The Dhyana of the Three eyed Ganesha I bow to the Vigna Rajah, distinguished by an elephant face, with sharp tusks, three eyes, a big belly, having the features of a Bhuta, adored by men and gods, of a red colour, a king of gods, son of Isvara. Gaja vadana vicitram tikshna dantam trinetram Brahadudaramasesham bhuta rupam puranam Amara nara supujyam rakta varnam suresam Pasupati sutamisam vighna rajam namami Note the reference to bhuta rupam i.e. the appearance of a Bhuta. Refers back to the earlier discussion of 2006 on this forum where Bhuta Nawasari as a Rakshasa king had ben discussed.