Osprey series' color plates

[migueldiaz]

Armies of the Ottoman Turks ...

[migueldiaz]

Various (Arab legion, siege weapons, etc.) ...

[migueldiaz]

Gurkhas ...

[Emanuel]

Great post Miguel! Nice representation of weapons. I can pick out a kris, barong, loads of tulwars, saifs, Mameluke sabres, yataghans, khanjars, tabars, and khukris.

It's too bad Osprey stuck with the myth of the black-clad "ninja" though. Some of the Islamic swords look a tad too western to me. I was also expecting to see Attila sporting a curved sabre instead of a straight sword. Nice books all in all, thanks for the link.

Emanuel

[fearn]

Hi All,

While I do love the Osprey series, and I do appreciate Miguel's efforts. On the other hand, I think we need to think about whether we want to post so much copyrighted material without attribution.

What's the dividing line? A lot of us (including myself) have posted pictures from other websites, and that's okay so far as I can tell. I, for one, wouldn't like to see an entire book posted, unless it was not copyrighted or if the copyright had lapsed. What's the acceptable middle ground?

My bias is towards paying authors and artists for their work, mostly so that they can afford to keep producing the art I enjoy. Since I enjoy the Osprey series artwork, I would argue that we should buy the books.

Fearn

[David]

Interesting that he only depicted the Moro warrior as dead.

[migueldiaz]

Originally Posted by David

Interesting that he only depicted the Moro warrior as dead.

Hi David, I agree. The other thing that needs verification is the caption in the book on that dead Moro -- the book says that Moro warriors "took drugs and work themselves into a fighting frenzy". I wonder if the Moro's Islam religion would actually allow them to take drugs

Originally Posted by Manolo

It's too bad Osprey stuck with the myth of the black-clad "ninja" though. Some of the Islamic swords look a tad too western to me. I was also expecting to see Attila sporting a curved sabre instead of a straight sword ...

Hello Emanuel. While the attention to details of the Osprey series is excellent, as you pointed out there can also be inaccuracies or at least questionable depictions. I guess that's the whole point of examining these images.

Originally Posted by fearn

What's the dividing line? A lot of us (including myself) have posted pictures from other websites, and that's okay so far as I can tell. I, for one, wouldn't like to see an entire book posted, unless it was not copyrighted or if the copyright had lapsed. What's the acceptable middle ground? ... I would argue that we should buy the books.

Hi Fearn At first blush you may find it strange, but I actually agree with all of the points you mentioned.

There is a simple fourfold test on whether the use of an original material falls under fair use or not. One version can be found here.

In summary, the use of copyrighted material falls under fair use if: (a) the original material is being used for commentary, analysis, etc.; (b) the content of the original work being quoted pertains more to factual info rather than original creative work; (c) the portion of the original work being used is just a small portion and it is not the heart of the original work; and (d) the use of the original work does not prejudice the original author commercially.

In general, I think all postings of quotes and pics here in the forum satisfy item "a" above. And said item "a" is in fact the key criterion in determining fair use.

Again in general, all postings of portions of original materials here in the forum pertain to factual matters (e.g., blade attributes, etc.), rather than to creative work, hence to me criterion "b" is satisfied as well.

As for the portion of the original work being used (item "c"), I think we all just post snippets of the original work. And we don't put in our posts the bulk or the entirety of somebody's work.

To be more specific, in the color plates posted here, we'll notice that some if not most pertain to just the cover of that specific title.

And even in the few cases above where there were several color plates posted from one particular title, I don't think the set of plates constitutes the substantive portion of that title.

For all of us who enjoy buying and collecting those Osprey titles (I myself have dozens), we certainly all appreciate that those color plates are just but a portion of the tons of info we get from those books.

Which leads us to the 4th and last consideration -- is the author or the publisher of the book being commercially prejudiced by the posting of portions of his/her work in the Internet?

My personal opinion on that 4th criterion as applied to the case at hand is that there is no harm being done. In fact those who have been made aware of how good the Osprey series is (by getting a preview of what's in a title) might actually be enticed to buy the book. And I sure hope he does, as he won't regret it.

But that's just my layman's interpretation of the application of the fair use principle in regard to the query.

So Fearn, I support fully all the points you've mentioned And I do believe that there's no conflict in the application of the fair use principle.

I'm sure we'd both like to hear from the others as well. We are all ears

[Rick]

Originally Posted by fearn

Hi All,

While I do love the Osprey series, and I do appreciate Miguel's efforts. On the other hand, I think we need to think about whether we want to post so much copyrighted material without attribution.

What's the dividing line? A lot of us (including myself) have posted pictures from other websites, and that's okay so far as I can tell. I, for one, wouldn't like to see an entire book posted, unless it was not copyrighted or if the copyright had lapsed. What's the acceptable middle ground?

My bias is towards paying authors and artists for their work, mostly so that they can afford to keep producing the art I enjoy. Since I enjoy the Osprey series artwork, I would argue that we should buy the books.

Fearn

While they are lovely ....
I think we should also consider the amount of limited server space that so many images take up .
This forum costs nothing to be a member; and is solely supported by private funds .
We are blessed .

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by fearn

Hi All,

While I do love the Osprey series, and I do appreciate Miguel's efforts. On the other hand, I think we need to think about whether we want to post so much copyrighted material without attribution.

What's the dividing line? A lot of us (including myself) have posted pictures from other websites, and that's okay so far as I can tell. I, for one, wouldn't like to see an entire book posted, unless it was not copyrighted or if the copyright had lapsed. What's the acceptable middle ground?

My bias is towards paying authors and artists for their work, mostly so that they can afford to keep producing the art I enjoy. Since I enjoy the Osprey series artwork, I would argue that we should buy the books.

Fearn

Well placed note Fearn, and while I also admire Miguel's well intended post here, I think that this may be construed as exceeding fair use. If it were a page of illustrations aligned with a discussion on a particular topic, and properly cited it would be within perameters. Attaching such volume of the corpus of Osprey material (which I'm amazed could be done like this) is colorful and enjoyable, but I think better served singularly with focus on one topic and discussion.

I agree, these books are magnificent and offer much broader attention to often extremely esoteric subjects in history in a wonderful benchmark fashion. I have often used them as a sort of visual overview when beginning research on a particular topic, following with more in depth study.

Miguel, thank you for your thoughtful sharing of these, but I think we should be mindful of the copyright issues and posting volume as well OK.

Best regards,
Jim