An extremely rare short Landsknechts' matchlock harquebus, Suhl ?, ca. 1540

Pukka Bundook · 19th November 2008, 01:25 PM

Michael,

I had missed this topic until now.

A Very interesting arm!....and in amazing condition.
Can you tell me why such short barrels were used at this time?

I find it interesting to see the for-sight is (apparently) an integral part of the barrel. Is the rear sight made the same way or has it been attached later?

What I really find interesting, is the flash-pan being made as part of the lock, like one would expect to see on much later arms of the 1600's.
I wonder why the practice of making the pan this way went out of fashion for a while, when it would appear to have been easier to make than forging the pan onto the barrel?

Can you tell me roughly what diameter the bore is?

Thanks again for the lovely pictures!!

Richard.

Matchlock · 19th November 2008, 04:23 PM

Richard,

Short barrels - belonging to short guns - were much in use in the first half of the 16th century beause they corresponded to the stylistic taste of the German Early Renaisssance period. All objects of everday use used to be stout and short then: candlesticks, money boxes, purses, Katzbalgers etc.

The fore-sight is actually dovetailed horizontally, while the original (!) small back-sight is dovetailed laterally. Cf. my Nuremberg harquebus dated 1539 dealt with in one of my former posts, which has the same back-sight, only missing its brass tube which the back-sight of the Suhl/Straubing gun never had.

You are exactly right in noticing the unsual feature of the pan and cover being parts of the lock plate. Actually, this used mostly to be the case in mid 16th century but then turns up again with Suhl matchlocks during the second decade of the 17th century, as well as in French, English and Austrian matchlocks at the end of the 17th century.

On the other hand, pans were never forged integrally to the barrels; they were all dovetailed, either on the left or the right of the touch hole. From ca. 1570 onward, they are mostly put in dovetails from the rear of the barrel and can be easily hammered out towards the rear.

The caliber of the Suhl/Straubing harquebus is 14.3 mm.

Michael

Pukka Bundook · 20th November 2008, 02:00 AM

Michael,

Thank you for the explanation re. short barrels, calibre, and how sights had been fitted.

Also. thank you for the information on how a pan was fitted to the barrel. with never handling an original, this was a feature I was unaware of!
Very valuable information!!
I also had not been aware that the pan integral with lock was quite common at this early date, I thank you for your information on this detail as well!

Best wishes,

Richard.

Matchlock · 1st December 2008, 12:06 PM

Just barely more evolved than that of my Straubing harquebus.

The jaws of the serpentine and the wingnut are almost identical to my piece, the triangular ends of the lock plate and the grip of the pan cover show a more modern style, though.

Michael

Pukka Bundook · 2nd December 2008, 06:28 AM

Michael,

Wonderful to see details of this early lock with rivited pan. For years I've looked for such details and found very little to go on!

Thanks again for the photos!

Richard.

Matchlock · 3rd December 2008, 12:04 AM

Richard,

Believe me, buddy: it's all big fun answering back to your demanding and smart enquiries.

It's my turn to be grateful, really.

It used to be such an almost unbearably lonely life over here till my friend Ed inivited me to our forum - thanks a million, Ed!

Thanks, too, to you and Jim and for keeping me inspired and sharing so much!

Michael

Pukka Bundook · 3rd December 2008, 02:44 PM

Michael,

No, believe me. It is Us who are grateful to you!!

A couple more queations if I may;

How long is the barrel on this very nice harquebus?
It amazes me the muzzle does not look at all worn!

Was this type of stock meant to be held underneath the arm for firing, or fit the shoulder?

Thank you Micheal.

Richard.

1st December 2008, 12:06 PM	#4
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	A ca. 1550 detached matchlock mechanism with riveted pan Just barely more evolved than that of my Straubing harquebus. The jaws of the serpentine and the wingnut are almost identical to my piece, the triangular ends of the lock plate and the grip of the pan cover show a more modern style, though. Michael Attached Images

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search
Display Modes
Switch to Linear Mode Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

19th November 2008, 01:25 PM	#1
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Michael, I had missed this topic until now. A Very interesting arm!....and in amazing condition. Can you tell me why such short barrels were used at this time? I find it interesting to see the for-sight is (apparently) an integral part of the barrel. Is the rear sight made the same way or has it been attached later? What I really find interesting, is the flash-pan being made as part of the lock, like one would expect to see on much later arms of the 1600's. I wonder why the practice of making the pan this way went out of fashion for a while, when it would appear to have been easier to make than forging the pan onto the barrel? Can you tell me roughly what diameter the bore is? Thanks again for the lovely pictures!! Richard.

19th November 2008, 04:23 PM	#2
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Richard, Short barrels - belonging to short guns - were much in use in the first half of the 16th century beause they corresponded to the stylistic taste of the German Early Renaisssance period. All objects of everday use used to be stout and short then: candlesticks, money boxes, purses, Katzbalgers etc. The fore-sight is actually dovetailed horizontally, while the original (!) small back-sight is dovetailed laterally. Cf. my Nuremberg harquebus dated 1539 dealt with in one of my former posts, which has the same back-sight, only missing its brass tube which the back-sight of the Suhl/Straubing gun never had. You are exactly right in noticing the unsual feature of the pan and cover being parts of the lock plate. Actually, this used mostly to be the case in mid 16th century but then turns up again with Suhl matchlocks during the second decade of the 17th century, as well as in French, English and Austrian matchlocks at the end of the 17th century. On the other hand, pans were never forged integrally to the barrels; they were all dovetailed, either on the left or the right of the touch hole. From ca. 1570 onward, they are mostly put in dovetails from the rear of the barrel and can be easily hammered out towards the rear. The caliber of the Suhl/Straubing harquebus is 14.3 mm. Michael

20th November 2008, 02:00 AM	#3
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Michael, Thank you for the explanation re. short barrels, calibre, and how sights had been fitted. Also. thank you for the information on how a pan was fitted to the barrel. with never handling an original, this was a feature I was unaware of! Very valuable information!! I also had not been aware that the pan integral with lock was quite common at this early date, I thank you for your information on this detail as well! Best wishes, Richard.

2nd December 2008, 06:28 AM	#5
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Michael, Wonderful to see details of this early lock with rivited pan. For years I've looked for such details and found very little to go on! Thanks again for the photos! Richard.

3rd December 2008, 12:04 AM	#6
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Richard, Believe me, buddy: it's all big fun answering back to your demanding and smart enquiries. It's my turn to be grateful, really. It used to be such an almost unbearably lonely life over here till my friend Ed inivited me to our forum - thanks a million, Ed! Thanks, too, to you and Jim and for keeping me inspired and sharing so much! Michael

3rd December 2008, 02:44 PM	#7
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Michael, No, believe me. It is Us who are grateful to you!! A couple more queations if I may; How long is the barrel on this very nice harquebus? It amazes me the muzzle does not look at all worn! Was this type of stock meant to be held underneath the arm for firing, or fit the shoulder? Thank you Micheal. Richard.