Moro blades galore: Any gem/s here?

[migueldiaz]

Originally Posted by David

The big difference for me would be one of intention, though i do like to collect pieces that might have a solid sense of history as well ... Placing an old kris next to one of these contemporary swords will probably show you this rather quickly. Both of them might be effective at killing, but the antique will most often be aesthetically more pleasing to the eye.

Hi David,

Amen!

Hello KuKulzA28,

To expound on David's point, if for instance the kris was antique, then wouldn't it be exciting to think that perhaps the said piece was one of those that figured in a famous Moroland battle, like the one described below?

Note where the kris was when Hassan died:

"Panglima Hassan (central figure in pic below), was killed in action against the Americans on March 4, 1904 at Bud Bagsak (Mount Bagsak).

"Hassan was the district commander of Luuk, Sulu, under the Sulu Sultanate. He was the first Tausug leader to defy the sultan’s order, that, in the interest of peace, the people should acknowledge American sovereignty. As an Imam (roughly translates to "prayer leader"), Panglima Hassan looked at the intrusive American 'infidels' as threats to Islam and Moro society . The Tausug Moros had allowed the Spaniards to build a garrison in Siasi and a church in Jolo by virtue of the 1878 peace pact, but that was it. After 300 years of almost continuous warfare, the Spanish had known better than to try and impose their authority over the fiercely independent Sulu people. But the Americans --- backed by utterly lethal modern weapons --- had no such reservations.

"In early November 1903, Hassan and about 3,000 to 4,000 warriors besieged the American garrison in Jolo. Armed only with krises (wavy-edged swords) and some old rifles, they bottled up the Americans for a week before being forced to withdraw. Following a battle, Hassan was captured while bathing near his camp at Lake Seit in late November 1903, but he soon escaped. He resumed the war in February 1904 when, together with Datu ('Chief') Laksamana and Datu Usap, they attacked the pro-American Sultan Kiram and his forces in the battle of Pampang. He lost in the battle, and was later killed with his two companions along the crater of Bud Bagsak. Hassan had 17 wounds in his body, but died game, crawling with his kris in his mouth toward the nearest wounded American soldier when the last bullet dispatched him."

To all,

Would it actually be possible to trace where in the US Hassan's kris is for instance? And the others'?

I cannot imagine the value of said krisses if provenance can be established!

[KuKulzA28]

I see... so as in the soul of the weapon, it's history... the blood and sweat on it, and that is what makes an antique amazing... like an elder who knows his/her shit and can do things that surprise you, but nevertheless, even though they've seen many days, they're old, and starting to lose their young vigor

[mross]

Originally Posted by migueldiaz

Hi David,

To all,

Would it actually be possible to trace where in the US Hassan's kris is for instance? And the others'?

I cannot imagine the value of said krisses if provenance can be established!

It's possible but unlikey. You would need strong documented evidence to support a claim of provenance. Most seems to be the word of those who collected the weapon and brought it back. If you had a good clear photo of the weapon with the owner that would go along way to help in tracing it. One of the big problems with Moro weapons is they are not documented. But you are right if provenance can be established the value goes up.

[capt.smash]

Hi some time ago i braught two kris from the USA that claimed to be army bring backs ....they were both heavily coated in Cosmoline witch was a nightmare to remove but gave the "bringback" claim a little authenticity for me.
Of interest was that they both have small typed labels on the scabbards with individuals names"Hadji Ali.Tanbunan,Talayan" and"Jamal. Lambnyao,Tatayam"
I have always wondered if these could have been the names of the original owners[confiscated mabe?] but thaught it was to good to be true.
I will post a couple of pics asap when i find my damn camera cable.

[capt.smash]

Found the fellow.Note the silver bands on the top swords scabbard and silver fittings on the handle are replacements.The stirrups and handles are original just restored[the bottom swords stirrups are iron heat blued].Both handles came with remnants of woven thread rotted by the cosmoline.Both are ongoing projects for me.

[migueldiaz]

Originally Posted by mross

It's possible but unlikey. You would need strong documented evidence to support a claim of provenance. Most seems to be the word of those who collected the weapon and brought it back. If you had a good clear photo of the weapon with the owner that would go along way to help in tracing it. One of the big problems with Moro weapons is they are not documented. But you are right if provenance can be established the value goes up.

Thanks for the comments