The Flyssa

[Gonzalo G]

Very nicely stated, Jim, I agree. Tough I think the takouba and kaskara are related more to the early islamic swords than other models. About the wootz: I am reading the Al-Kindi treatise "On Swords an their Kinds". He mentions, interestingly, the Yemen as an impotant center of production of swords, using either their own wootz, or an imported one from Sri Lanka. There were documented commercial connections among the Yemen and East Central Africa. I think we can reconstruct, slowly, the commercial network in the Middle Ages and before. Al-Kindi also wrotte about other places were wootz and swords were produced, on India, Iraq, and Bukhara, and some routes of trade for the wootz cakes. Interestigly, not a mention of wootz production on Persia, but forging centers in many places. Seems like Damascus production was alreay on decay on those times (9th Century).

Whenever you want to park here, family and books included, you are very well welcomed.
My best regards

Gonzalo

[Jim McDougall]

Thank you so much Gonzalo. You're right, the Islamic broadswords were at the root of broadsword development in the Sudan, and the European styles later served as developing indiginous forms as trade increased. I have not read Al-Kindi, only material cited from him in various references, particularly Elgood. The Yemen was indeed once an important center as you note, but the wootz was imported and it seems quite likely the earlier source was from Sri-Lanka, well visited by Arab trade. Persia did not produce wootz as I understand, but thier advanced forging methods with this excellent steel produced the blades that became nearly legendary.
By the 9th c. I believe Tamarlene had moved most of the smiths to his own Samarkand, and Damascus had become primarily a trade center where these high quality blades diffused far and wide.

All very best regards, and thank you again,
Jim

[Gonzalo G]

Well, Al-Kindi does mention that the Yemen had wootz production in his time. And he does not mention other places where it was produced in latter times on India, according with the indian sources. So I still can´t find conclusive evidence that Persia did not produced wootz, apart from circunstancial evidence. It seems that there have been some changes in the geographical distribution of wootz production. I suspect that even some places related with this production, were only ports or markets from which wootz was concentrated and traded to other places on the Orient.
Regards

Gonzalo

[Gonzalo G]

Jim, please empty your mail box. I couldn´t send you a message.
Regards

Gonzalo

[Gavin Nugent]

Nice brain storming guys.

Here is a blog from the Pitt Rivers Museum.


The flissa or flyssa is the distinctive weapon of the Kabyle Berber people of Algeria. Since they vary in length they are sometimes classed as swords, sometimes as knives. Unlike many North African swords which are fitted with European blades, the flissa blade is without exception of local manufacture.

Such weapons were used to break open chain mail, which was still worn in this part of the world until the 19th century. The blade is single-edged for cutting but also has a tapering point for stabbing. This typical example has an octagonal grip, animal head pommel and decoratively incised blade.

Sacred Weapons
The unusual concave section along the flissa’s cutting edge has drawn much attention from art historians. Some have argued that this shape shows the particular ancestry of the flissa, which they believe copies the shape of concave-bladed Ancient Greek swords called machaira, such as those used by the armies of Alexander the Great. It doesn’t seem impossible that this form of sword could have been brought to Algeria by the Carthaginians, who were themselves of Phoenician origin. In saying this, it should also be noted that the flissa hilt is similar to that of Arabian-Persian-Indian shamshir swords so it is not beyond doubt that it had it’s origins further east.

As well as the blade shape, the species of animal depicted on the flissa hilts has also created much academic speculation. Some scholars have argued that the species of the animal is unimportant; what is important is that their eyes are always exaggerated in size. Both the animal-headed pommel and the brass-inlaid geometric decoration on the hilt and blade, have magical power. All of the decoration on the sword serves to protect the wielder against the Evil Eye.

The Evil Eye is a major concern for Berber and Islamic North Africans alike. It is believed that the first jealous glance of another person, cast on someone or their possessions, is dangerous to them and will bring them misfortune. Such decoration is applied to many manufactured objects in the region. The general idea behind such decoration is to depict something repulsive, pointed, or an eye or hand, with which one can repel, pierce or deflect the Evil Eye. For example, the individual triangular motifs on the back of this sword’s blade represent clothes pins (fibulae), which are understood to pierce the Evil Eye, while the zigzag line motifs represent a snake, which then drives it away. The glare from one eye is believed to repel that of another so the animal-headed pommel has been cast here with large eyes.

[KuKulzA28]

I don't know too much about the Islamic and African world, though I wish I did. However, on the topic of Celts... they were all over Europe in various forms and sub-cultures... the Celitberian and Celtic-influence Lusitani in Iberia, the Caledonians, Iceni, Casse, Cautevellani, and Goidils in The British Isles and Ireland, the Gallic folk in France, the Belgae around the Rhine area... the countless Alpine tribes (not counting independent cultures like the Rhaetians), the Cisalpine Gauls, the eastern Boii, Scordisci, and Lugii, and the Galatians in Greece, Turkey, and Egypt.

The Celts outside of main Europe were there often due to migration and mercenary service. The Anatolian Galatians in Ankyra conquered a chunk of land and then often lent their services as mercenaries to the Greeks and Pontics. The Egyptian Celts were imported there to be mercenaries, given land and slaves and enticed to settle along the Nile, in return for military service. The Carthaginians used Celts as mercenaries as well... and while their favored troops were Iberians, Numidians, and Libyans... they probably had Celts in Carthage...

So the Celts have spread all over the place, and while I'm not educated enough to speak on the Flyssa authoritatively, I know that the Celtic influence is possible geographically... but time-wise... it is not so clear

[Gonzalo G]

!Wow! !It´s amazing what do so many people belive!