Found it in Maui

[David]

Originally Posted by kulbuntet

Bali Blade looks great. dwi warna pamor? Maybe little bit small, Hindu javanese Empu?

Hard to catch up with you Kulbuntet. You seem omnipresent, you appear to be posting everywhere at once.
Anyway, welcome to the forum.
I have at least one small Bali keris (less than 33 cm.). I don't think that there is any Javanese influence in the size though. Bali keris are generally larger than Javanese, but exceptions always exist.

[kulbuntet]

Hi David,
Thank you for welcoming me. I enjoy being on this forum.

A friend of me told me that since the arival of the islam on Java, alot of hindu Javanese people left for bali and lombok taking their empu with them. The Hindu Javanese emupu were doeing their thing on bali, making bali keris with javanese style. My friend says he can tel the difrence between A keris made by al hindu bali empoe and a hindu javanese empu, by looking at the soshoran and gonjo. The hindu javanese seens to be thinner and and less robust than the hindu bali ones. iff i look at kerisses with a bali style willah and sarong within this perspecif i see what he means, and it sound logical.

btw sorry for my bad writen englisch.. i have a good excuse..im Dutch

[A. G. Maisey]

Differentiation of Balinese and Javanese blades is not difficult, but I would leave the "Hindu" out of it.

Hindu Javanese refers to Majapahit and before, that is pre-1525 (nominal date).

Almost 500 years ago.

Let's get fair dinkum.

[David]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Let's get fair dinkum.

Had to look that one up Alan. You Aussies have some fun expressions.
Kulbuntet, as i understand it the culture of the Majapahit kingdom pretty much moved to Bali after it's fall at the beginning of the 14th century. I don't think you can divide blades made after this time as Javanese Hindu vs. Bali Hindu. At that point it's pretty much just Balinese. The Balinese keris do seem to have then developed into a larger and more robust form. I am not sure that this was the case before the fall of the Majapahit though. Bali was then under the influence of the kingdom as it was centered in Jawa and i believe that the proper pakem of that kraton would dictate the form that keris blades took regardless of whether they were made in Jawa or Bali.

[A. G. Maisey]

My apologies David, I usually try not to write in the way in which I speak, as I realise that much of my normal patois would be totally incomprehensible to most speakers of the English language. That one just slipped by me.

I'm not so sure that the idea of "pakem" existed in old Jawa. I feel that a lot of the nit-picking categorisation that goes on with the keris possibly did not begin to occur until after the resurgence of Javanism that occurred during the Kartosuro era.Twenty years ago I would have thought that this had reached its peak during the 1920's and 1930's, but I would have been wrong. It seems to me that more pigeon holes get added every day.

How much this contributes towards the understanding of the keris, I am as yet uncertain.

[David]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

My apologies David, I usually try not to write in the way in which I speak, as I realise that much of my normal patois would be totally incomprehensible to most speakers of the English language. That one just slipped by me.

No problem Alan. It allows me to practice my google.

[kulbuntet]

But were there in late matharam no hindu religion on Java?

I don't know for sure but my friend is a dunkun he poses more than 300 keris, a lot of them are Bali/lombok keris.. he show me what he meant. He hindu javanese that left to go to bali made bali keris over there, the sarong was made balinese the hulu balinese the blade aswel. But in the forging of the blade there was a slight javanese style. Seen on the gonjo and the sorsoran. I wil try to show the difrence to what i mean.

Hindu balinese bali keris

Hind Javanese bali/lombok keris