Kalis: Origin of Minadanaon Kris

baganing_balyan · 29th June 2008, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Actually, i believe that what is by his side and also on the wall are larger 20th century punals or gungongs. This is pretty clear from the hilt and sheath style. I think you need to learn how to distinguish your Moro weaponry better.

There is one over sized keris (especially on the dress side) on that wall. Over-sized, very showy dress is common for these ritual regalia kris.
Can you tell me, have you read any of the reference books on Federico's list?

as i said, maranao kris used as a regalia is shorter, so length should not be used in dating.

I saw maranao krises like that in Marawi. There are still smiths today in lanao who make short krises with that kind of handle.

David · 29th June 2008, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baganing_balyan

as i said, maranao kris used as a regalia is shorter, so length should not be used in dating.

I saw maranao krises like that in Marawi.

In other words, these "shorter" kris you are citing are not actually kris.

baganing_balyan · 29th June 2008, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

In other words, these "shorter" kris you are citing are not actually kris.

please do a research first what a punal or punyal is-- not from the book but from the people using it if there are.

baganing_balyan · 29th June 2008, 11:03 PM

that's what i have been saying all along-- the naming the mindanao weapons is extremely problematic. Some are coined to make them sound exotic.

David · 29th June 2008, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baganing_balyan

please do a research first what a punal or punyal is-- not from the book but from the people using it if there are.

Sorry, Baganing, i have done my research. The photo you link to showing what you claim to be kris are not kris at all. I don't care if you believe me. You credibility is shot as far as i am concerned. You don't seem to truly have a grasp at Moro weaponry, you are merely grasping at straws. Good luck with that.

baganing_balyan · 29th June 2008, 11:08 PM

are you telling me that the guy in yellow attire was holding a knife on his side? estimate the length of his kris using his fist. is that a knife?

can you tell me what is punal or punyal?

David · 29th June 2008, 11:15 PM

Well Baganing, look at the hilt form. Look at the sheath form. These are both common forms for punal and gunong. We can't see the blades in these pictures. Modern punals have gotten to be quite long in some cases. We see them for sale on eBay all the time. I have personally held quite a few of these modern longer punals in my hands on many occasion. I can not see the blades in these pictures, but i can almost guarantee that these blades do not have an asymetric blade like the kris, nor a gangya (insert spelling of your choice). These are not kris. Period. Learn your Moro weapons and we can discuss this later.

baganing_balyan · 29th June 2008, 11:20 PM

that's what i have been telling you.. hilts, handle heads, and sheaths vary among muslim groups. I even saw samal krises with shells on their sheaths and pearls on the handles and kalagans' with vines and animal hairs.

Talk to a maranao, maybe you won't question his credibility. e-bay is not really a good source for research. I would have used the images there a long time ago.

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29th June 2008, 11:03 PM	#4
baganing_balyan Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 89	that's what i have been saying all along-- the naming the mindanao weapons is extremely problematic. Some are coined to make them sound exotic.

29th June 2008, 11:08 PM	#6
baganing_balyan Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 89	are you telling me that the guy in yellow attire was holding a knife on his side? estimate the length of his kris using his fist. is that a knife? can you tell me what is punal or punyal?

29th June 2008, 11:15 PM	#7
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,217	Well Baganing, look at the hilt form. Look at the sheath form. These are both common forms for punal and gunong. We can't see the blades in these pictures. Modern punals have gotten to be quite long in some cases. We see them for sale on eBay all the time. I have personally held quite a few of these modern longer punals in my hands on many occasion. I can not see the blades in these pictures, but i can almost guarantee that these blades do not have an asymetric blade like the kris, nor a gangya (insert spelling of your choice). These are not kris. Period. Learn your Moro weapons and we can discuss this later.

29th June 2008, 11:20 PM	#8
baganing_balyan Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 89	that's what i have been telling you.. hilts, handle heads, and sheaths vary among muslim groups. I even saw samal krises with shells on their sheaths and pearls on the handles and kalagans' with vines and animal hairs. Talk to a maranao, maybe you won't question his credibility. e-bay is not really a good source for research. I would have used the images there a long time ago.