Keris Found From A shipwreck

Bill · 28th March 2005, 03:03 PM

A Philippine, Bugis, & Portuegese connection all seems to be feasible. The Dutch are successfull in Celebes/Moluccas because they are buisnessmen only concered about the bottom line. The Portuegese have a budgit that may vary quite some from year to year depending on the priority of Portuegese government. One of the top trade items to China would be spices, sandlewood, etc from Celebes/Moluccas area. C. Macknight's paper 81 "Early history of South Sulawesi" shows dramatic drop in Chinese tradeware around 1500 (my opinion the fall of Malacca, latter the Spanish attack on Brunei should damage this trade also). I would think early 17thC. goods from Celebes to China would reap conciderable profits. MacKnight's paper also refers to the role the "Bajau" play in early Philippine/Sulawesi trade & suggests regular direct trade. After Dutch rule the Bugis will have boats built by a Mindanao group (Samal?) in Borneo. The Samal have a strong presence already in Celebes, so they may already have competent shipbuilders there or could easily send for them. Seems plausible a Portuegese buisnessman or even a official government venture would put a deal together like this, moderate investment with potential for huge profit.

Bill · 28th March 2005, 03:24 PM

a Makassarese connection may even be more likely as they would have been dominate power early 17thC Sulawesi as the Bugis groups have been in constant wars with each other. The Makassarese also have strong connections with the Philippines.

Jens Nordlunde · 28th March 2005, 04:05 PM

If you have problems with the Danish texts, let me know, and I will give it a try.

Jens

Federico · 29th March 2005, 05:18 AM

Now here is a third twist. Letsay we assume the timber found on the ship is indeed native to PI. Any thoughts on the feasibility that it could have been A. traded lumber (not unheard of, though depending on ship design possibly difficult)
B. a seized ship that was retrofitted for its new owners including nifty new Portugese emblems?

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28th March 2005, 03:03 PM	#1
Bill Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Chicago area Posts: 327	A Philippine, Bugis, & Portuegese connection all seems to be feasible. The Dutch are successfull in Celebes/Moluccas because they are buisnessmen only concered about the bottom line. The Portuegese have a budgit that may vary quite some from year to year depending on the priority of Portuegese government. One of the top trade items to China would be spices, sandlewood, etc from Celebes/Moluccas area. C. Macknight's paper 81 "Early history of South Sulawesi" shows dramatic drop in Chinese tradeware around 1500 (my opinion the fall of Malacca, latter the Spanish attack on Brunei should damage this trade also). I would think early 17thC. goods from Celebes to China would reap conciderable profits. MacKnight's paper also refers to the role the "Bajau" play in early Philippine/Sulawesi trade & suggests regular direct trade. After Dutch rule the Bugis will have boats built by a Mindanao group (Samal?) in Borneo. The Samal have a strong presence already in Celebes, so they may already have competent shipbuilders there or could easily send for them. Seems plausible a Portuegese buisnessman or even a official government venture would put a deal together like this, moderate investment with potential for huge profit.

28th March 2005, 03:24 PM	#2
Bill Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Chicago area Posts: 327	a Makassarese connection may even be more likely as they would have been dominate power early 17thC Sulawesi as the Bugis groups have been in constant wars with each other. The Makassarese also have strong connections with the Philippines.

28th March 2005, 04:05 PM	#3
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	If you have problems with the Danish texts, let me know, and I will give it a try. Jens

29th March 2005, 05:18 AM	#4
Federico Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA Posts: 312	Now here is a third twist. Letsay we assume the timber found on the ship is indeed native to PI. Any thoughts on the feasibility that it could have been A. traded lumber (not unheard of, though depending on ship design possibly difficult) B. a seized ship that was retrofitted for its new owners including nifty new Portugese emblems?