BANGKINANG & BAHARI kerises?

[sukuh]

Dear Ganjawulung,

On several occasions I heard people talk about the "executionerskeris" when the subject was bangkinang.
Please tell me, do you think that remark is plausible or just a story?

thanks Sukuh

[ganjawulung]

Originally Posted by sukuh

On several occasions I heard people talk about the "executionerskeris" when the subject was bangkinang.
Please tell me, do you think that remark is plausible or just a story?

Dear Sukuh, I think David van Duuren has written on this matter in his book, The Kris (1996, 1998). Please page 87,

"... the slender and straight keris panjang, or 'long kris', which also used for executions. One of those executions was described by a Dutch eyewitness. The prisoner crouched on the ground, his back to the executioner. Below his left shoulder was glued a thick wad of cotton fluff, the 'rose'. When the moment had come, the executioner attacked with a swift and perfect thrust, penetrating straignt through the back and into the heart. Death was instantaneous; the cotton absorbed the small quantity of flowing blood...,"

"In earlier days, execution by the kris was, in Indonesia, to some degree considered a 'good dead'; it was much more dignified than simply having one's head cut off...,"

[sukuh]

In earlier days, execution by the kris was, in Indonesia, to some degree considered a 'good dead'; it was much more dignified than simply having one's head cut off...

Dear Ganjawulung,

If I had to choose I would prefer that method too...
So, correct me if I'm wrong, bangkinang was used for that purpose but not specialy made for it, as I was told..?

[ganjawulung]

Originally Posted by sukuh

So, correct me if I'm wrong, bangkinang was used for that purpose but not specialy made for it, as I was told..?

Dear Sukuh, I suppose you are correct. As does the writer of "The Kris" book: ..."which also used for executions...," So, the "executioner kris" is not only for executing dead penalty, but also for other purposes...

[Amuk Murugul]

Hullo again,

I was in a hurry before and made a mistake.
Assuming a bedor/paksi/tang of 12-13cm., both blades can be called 'Bangkinang' based on length only.
Also:
Cannot see from pictures, but if the gandi (front part of base of blade) of the longer one has a tikel halis/eyebrow shaped like an inverted comma, then it has the 'Bangkinang' form.
But, the thick tang makes me ask: maybe it is a Peninsular version ... or a revised keris ageung/large Wetan/Jawa?
Bahari should have the same form as Bangkinang, just shorter. So I am suspicious of the shorter one. Is it Bali/Jawa keris?

By 'duyung teeth', I assume you mean the male Dugong tusk ivory.

About keris executions:

Traditionally keris executions were done with keris as a mark of respect and with no specific form of such keris.
Execution was done from the back.

With the long keris, execution was done from the collar-bone area.
That is why the long keris is called 'penyalang', from the word 'salang'... a corruption of the word sasalang/clavicle/collar-bone.

Best

[ganjawulung]

Originally Posted by Amuk Murugul

...Cannot see from pictures, but if the gandi (front part of base of blade) of the longer one has a tikel halis/eyebrow shaped like an inverted comma, then it has the 'Bangkinang' form.

Yes, it has a kind of "tikel alis" shaped like an inverted comma near the gandhik. I will post the clearer pics later tommorrow. The blade is too heavily etched with warangan...

Originally Posted by Amuk Murugul

But, the thick tang makes me ask: maybe it is a Peninsular version ... or a revised keris ageung/large Wetan/Jawa?
Bahari should have the same form as Bangkinang, just shorter. So I am suspicious of the shorter one. Is it Bali/Jawa keris?

I am not sure, whether this is a Peninsular version or keris "Jawa Wetan" as you just mentioned. And the shorter keris, I don't think the shorter is javanese kind.The form of "greneng" is not javanese at all. Usually, javanese kerises have "dha" form greneng (like "dha" character in javanese alphabet). And this not.

Originally Posted by Amuk Murugul

By 'duyung teeth', I assume you mean the male Dugong tusk ivory.
About keris executions:
Traditionally keris executions were done with keris as a mark of respect and with no specific form of such keris. Execution was done from the back.
With the long keris, execution was done from the collar-bone area.
That is why the long keris is called 'penyalang', from the word 'salang'... a corruption of the word sasalang/clavicle/collar-bone.

That's what I meant, Kang Amuk. Dugong tusk ivory... Thank you for the useful information on "keris penyalang"...

Ganjawulung

[ganjawulung]

Originally Posted by Amuk Murugul

Cannot see from pictures, but if the gandi (front part of base of blade) of the longer one has a tikel halis/eyebrow shaped like an inverted comma, then it has the 'Bangkinang' form.

Picture from the gandik part of the blade. Like an inverted comma...

[Amuk Murugul]

Originally Posted by ganjawulung

Picture from the gandik part of the blade. Like an inverted comma...

Hullo again,

Is that a ridge/backbone I see running along the middle of the blade?
If it is, then I wouldn't call it a traditional Bangkinang but I would settle for a panjang/penyalang.

Best.

[PenangsangII]

Thank you Amuk, all this while I was thinking that bangkinang, alang, panjang were just names depending on where the keris was found. I'm interested to know more about keris bangkinang that has flat tang in the middle section. And it would be very interesting to know that this type was the Minang's answer to Portuguese rapier. From the information you gathered along the way, was there any description on how the bangkinang keris was used against the rapier? Was it used by the Minang ppl similar to the way the Portuguese used their rapiers?

Thank you in advance.