It certainly is very old ... but what is it ?

[fernando]

Originally Posted by katana

Hi Fernando ... I also believe it is a spear butt ...
... Your example could be ceremonial, but am sure a spear butt nethertheless.

I David,
I have missed your post, which you submitted whilst i was "rehearsing" mine. You know, some times i have to go back a zillion times to "improve" my louzy english in the paragraphs i find more bizarre, so my posts take ages to be submited.
Say, would you tell this piece is European or African ... which is almost the same as telling, would this be a modern or an ancient object ?
Fernando

[katana]

Originally Posted by fernando

I David,
You know, some times i have to go back a zillion times to "improve" my louzy english .............................................

Say, would you tell this piece is European or African ... which is almost the same as telling, would this be a modern or an ancient object ?
Fernando

Hi Fernando,
firstly..... your English is excellent ....but please dont ask me to reply in Portugese

I am not certain as to the origins...or date. Instinct suggests African but....there is a nagging doubt which I cannot 'put my finger on'.

Looking at the pictures I noticed, what appears to be a rusted rivet or 'nail' ....it follows the 'centre line' position of the 'open' fixing hole. If this is the case, I personally have not seen a 'double fixing' on an African spearhead or butt

Regards David

PS The other hole looks to be 'punched' rather than drilled. if this is the case it would have probably been done during forging, further suggesting either 'primatively' made (meaning without more technical (industrial) tools such as a drill bit) or 'good' age ....

[fernando]

Well David,
My english was learnt in the streets; it's only mediocre because i keep checking it in the dictionary ... or in the web .
It's amazing how different eyes can see distinct things
I don't think that's a nail mark at all; there's no countermark on the other side. What i see there is some kind of punch, like a maker's mark or symbol of some kind. That´s precisely the first sympthom that made me think this thing is European .
... Plus the the iron structure, namely the socket; wouldn't African stuff be thinner ?
Fernando

[katana]

Originally Posted by fernando

... Plus the the iron structure, namely the socket; wouldn't African stuff be thinner ?
Fernando

Hi Fernando,
I have an old African spear which has 'heavy' socketted butt and spearhead.....so the 'thickness' doesn't mean it can't be African. You have to bear in mind that the butt aids the balance of the spear, even if it is not a 'throwing' type ( 'hand held' spears tend to have heavy 'heads' ) A balanced spear makes it much easier to use in combat (for the same reasons as a nicely 'balanced' sword would)

Could you post a 'close-up' picture of the 'rivet marking' ?

Regards David

[Lew]

The markings on the this spear thing seems North African to me? The Xs with the line through them often symbolize a stylized crocodile which are used by the tribes who live along the Nile in the Sudan and Egypt.

Lew

[fernando]

This is the best i can get with my tired digital camera .
Two shots from the mark side and one from the opposite side.
This afternoon i visited someone much more enlightened than me in these things. He is pritty much convinced this piece is a locally made rustic haft weapon (pike) head ... not a butt, nor an African item .
On the other hand, he doesn't think this mark in the pictures is something intentional.

[fernando]

I am still intrigued with that misterious sort of mark. Althought this guy i met doesn't beleive it was made intentionally, i find it dificult to be an accidental flaw. But what do i know ?
No further coments, Gentlemen ?
I would love to hear more about its tendence to be European or African, after all that has been said, as also your opinions about it being (or not) a pike (or sort of) head.
Thans a lot.