Scottish basket hilts and edged weapons

[Norman McCormick]

Hi,
Enjoyed the Sinclair story Jim, I think in this case Victorian collectors tended to be over simplistic in their attributions.
Paul, glad you liked the 'pure gallus chibs' ( sorry folks Glasgow humour ), would love to see the Armoury sometime but you've just asked the only teetotal Weegie this side of Byres Road out for a pint, yes a Scot who doesn't drink what's the world coming to.
Regards,
Norman.

[fearn]

Hi All,

Question for the experts: Have you ever seen a left-handed or symmetric basket-hilt?

I've always admired basket-hilts, but as a southpaw, I've never bothered with them. Why get something you can't wield properly? I'd be happy to find out that such weapons exist.

F

[Jim McDougall]

Thanks very much Norman You're right, arms collectors and scholars in the Victorian period indeed loved to embellish and romanticize, and the colloquial terms and folklore they applied to many weapon forms have remained firmly in place to present times. The term 'claymore' has brought considerable attention as well, and it has often been argued that the word referred to the huge two hand swords in use before the development of the distinct basket hilt swords. Claude Blair (in "Scottish Weapons and Fortifications", ed. D. Caldwell) has noted that in actuality the large two hand sword was termed 'claidheamh da laimh', while the basket hilt was called the 'claidheamh mor' or loosely 'claymore'.

The basket hilt with curved blades I believe were termed 'turcael' (presumably referencing the curved blades on Turkish sabres the Scots saw when on campaigns in Eastern Europe) and did of course exist, though it seems relatively sparingly. Obviously the inspiration for these basket hilt sabres may well have come from the Northern European heavy sabres described in the 'Sinclair' reference, though probably from the regular interaction in these regions by Scots. I agree that it would be more than difficult to draw any line of progression from any specific source of influence for either the basket hilt, or for these curved blade types.
In the 18th century, when basket hilts of Scottish style were being made for the British cavalry, there was a standard form hilt with conical pommel, and I remember one of these mounted with a British M1788 light cavalry sabre blade.

Interesting reference to the use of the basket hilt on sea service swords, and I have long believed that these would have been ideal for protecting the hand in close quarters melee aboard ships. Contrary to modern ideas of the basket hilt being shiny bright metal in those times, the hilts were typically russet brown or japanned, to protect the metal in the dampness of the Highland climes. These would have added to favorability.
As mentioned on the "pirate weapons" thread, the notorious Blackbeard actually met his end by a Highlanders basket hilt in shipboard combat...not at the hands of the British officer given credit for his death.

I think you make a very good observation in noting that these varying types of swords were probably all very much contemporary, and the huge two handers were still seen in use in minimal degree through the 17th century. As the baskethilt developed, the earlier sword forms certainly remained in use as well . There were no means for mass production of swords, and they were certainly expensive and beyond the means of many clansmen. I often wonder if many of the heavy blades from Germany on the earlier baskethilts might have come from Scots returning from campaigns on the Continent, and led to the predominance of these blades through ongoing trade.

All very best regards,
Jim

[Paul Macdonald]

Hi Fearn,

Scottish basket hilts are either symmetrical or asymmetric in form.

If asymmetric, then when you are looking at the basket from the open or back side with the blade pointing down, the left side of the basket is made slightly larger to accommodate the knuckles and back of the hand.

Here`s MacGregors sword (more on this and others later), which is made in this way -





The asymmetric hilts are undoubtedly individually crafted, while the symmetric hilts can also be cast or more easily mass produced (as in military hilts that followed the Scottish basket patterns).

To be honest, I have yet to see a specifically made left handed Scottish basket, which of course would be larger on the opposite side.

There is nothing to stop you wielding a symmetrical basket though, which many originals were

All the best,

Macdonald

[fearn]

Thanks Paul, now I have something to go looking for. Great!

F

[Jim McDougall]

That was a most interesting question Fearn, something I hadn't thought of, and great explanation Paul.
Paul, is this the Rob Roy sword?

All the best,
Jim

[Paul Macdonald]

No problem Fearn,

And aye Jim, that`s MacGregor`s sword. That is, before restoration.

The top and middle scabbard mounts were still fused to the blade, the rest of the scabbard leather gone, and the sword rusted overall.

It`s taken a lot of work to restore as far as possible and is still ongoing.

More pics and stories soon,

Macdonald

[Pukka Bundook]

Paul,

The MacGregor sword is very interesting.
I have a great big question;
How could such an important sword bw allowed to get into such condition? I am a bit out of touch....but could you fill me in on how and where it came to light?
I do not want to take up your time, but would be very intrested to know.

One more question if I may;
Was the basket hilt always lined?
I was of the opinion they originally had a leather, velvet or some other lining, but the person I discussed this with, was of the opinion that the lining was a 19th century idea.

Thank you for your time Sir.

Jim,
Thank you too for bringing up this topic!

Richard.