Long Moro Twistcore spear

Lew · 14th February 2008, 03:42 PM

Bill

very sweet spear. I agree it's way too long and heavy to be a thrower it seems to me a better longer distance jabber.

Lew

A. G. Maisey · 14th February 2008, 11:02 PM

I do not know anything about Moro weaponry, but I do have considerable background in Javanese and Balinese weaponry.

In these cultures a spear intended to be used in the hand and not thrown usually has a much more substantial shaft than this one, a shaft that swells in the mid point to afford better grip.

I agree that the quality of the blade of this spear could indicate a weapon used on ceremonial occasions, however the narrow section shaft seems more to indicate a thrown weapon.

The Roman pilum was a heavy thrown spear that weighed up to 8.5 pounds, and could travel 90 feet or so.

Cord spear throwers are well known and widely spread. Use of cord spear throwers is recorded in the Pacific region.

http://www.nma.gov.au/cook/artefact.php?id=337

http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/8682/jav.htm

http://dictionary.reference.com/brow...20thrower?r=14

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilum

Bill M · 15th February 2008, 01:35 AM

I agree with Alan.

There is another twist here. The ferrule next to the spear head appears to be a good quality silver. However the ferrule holding the loop looks to be brass and does not match the silver ferrule in material, design or quality.

Could this have been added later?

For what it is worth, the end with the loop is horn.

I had quite a cleaning job to do on this piece. The ferrule and spear head were soaked with yellow coating, perhaps shellac? I was pleasantly surprised by the silver.

Rick · 15th February 2008, 03:27 PM

A confession of sorts; I have thrown my Mandaya spears (9 feet loa) a few times .
The targets were compressed bales of peat moss .
From 35 feet away the spear went completely through the bale every time .

Seems the mass really helps with penetration .

My two Moro fighting spears are more like six feet long; much easier IMHO to handle with a shield .

VANDOO · 15th February 2008, 05:17 PM

LEE HAS A VERY NICE EXAMPLE PROBABLY AROUND 8 FEET LONG THAT WAS PROBABLY USED MOSTLY AS A HAND THRUSTING SPEAR WITH SHIELD. ITS BALANCE AND TAPER ALSO WOULD HAVE MADE IT A GOOD SHORT RANGE THROWING SPEAR, BUT IT WAS TOO NICE FOR ITS OWNER TO HAVE JUST THROWN IT WITHOUT WORRING ABOUT GETTING IT BACK. I SUSPECT IF THROWN THE WARRIOR WOULD BE CLOSING RAPIDLY SWORD DRAWN TO FINNISH HIS ENEMY AND RECLAIM HIS SPEAR. JUST AS LEE WOULD DO IF I TRYED TO RUN OFF WITH HIS SPEAR

IF THE MORO HAD SPEARS ONLY FOR THROWING, I SUSPECT THEY WOULD HAVE HAD SMALLER LESS ELABORATE POINTS AND SHORTER LIGHTER CANE, BAMBOO OR RATTAN SHAFTS. THE COST OF MAKEING SUCH SPEARS WOULD BE MUCH LESS AND PERHAPS SEVERAL COULD BE CARRIED AND THROWN BEFORE CLOSING IN WITH THE STRONGER HEAVIER FIGHTING SPEAR ,SHIELD AND SWORD. JUST A GUESS AS I HAVE NOT READ UP ON SPECIFIC MORO FIGHTING TECKNIQUES OR IF I DID, HAVE FORGOTTEN BY NOW

.

Rick · 15th February 2008, 10:55 PM

Well, to look at this another way; if you threw your spear or even took it into close combat; either you would be returning victorious with your weapon , or you would have no further need of it ...

Bill M · 16th February 2008, 12:24 PM

Pictures of one of my other Moro spears. This one is about six feet long. It has a bronze ferrule, but also has the four "rings" on it, like the silver ferrule. Wonder if this is standard to budiaks?

It also has a hole in the butt end. I wonder is it once had a loop also? Hole seems to be at least 4 inches deep.

15th February 2008, 01:35 AM	#3
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	I agree with Alan. There is another twist here. The ferrule next to the spear head appears to be a good quality silver. However the ferrule holding the loop looks to be brass and does not match the silver ferrule in material, design or quality. Could this have been added later? For what it is worth, the end with the loop is horn. I had quite a cleaning job to do on this piece. The ferrule and spear head were soaked with yellow coating, perhaps shellac? I was pleasantly surprised by the silver. Attached Images Last edited by Bill Marsh; 15th February 2008 at 01:48 AM.

15th February 2008, 10:55 PM	#6
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	As God Wills Well, to look at this another way; if you threw your spear or even took it into close combat; either you would be returning victorious with your weapon , or you would have no further need of it ...

16th February 2008, 12:24 PM	#7
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	Pictures of one of my other Moro spears. This one is about six feet long. It has a bronze ferrule, but also has the four "rings" on it, like the silver ferrule. Wonder if this is standard to budiaks? It also has a hole in the butt end. I wonder is it once had a loop also? Hole seems to be at least 4 inches deep. Attached Images

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14th February 2008, 03:42 PM	#1
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Bill very sweet spear. I agree it's way too long and heavy to be a thrower it seems to me a better longer distance jabber. Lew

14th February 2008, 11:02 PM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	I do not know anything about Moro weaponry, but I do have considerable background in Javanese and Balinese weaponry. In these cultures a spear intended to be used in the hand and not thrown usually has a much more substantial shaft than this one, a shaft that swells in the mid point to afford better grip. I agree that the quality of the blade of this spear could indicate a weapon used on ceremonial occasions, however the narrow section shaft seems more to indicate a thrown weapon. The Roman pilum was a heavy thrown spear that weighed up to 8.5 pounds, and could travel 90 feet or so. Cord spear throwers are well known and widely spread. Use of cord spear throwers is recorded in the Pacific region. http://www.nma.gov.au/cook/artefact.php?id=337 http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/8682/jav.htm http://dictionary.reference.com/brow...20thrower?r=14 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilum

15th February 2008, 03:27 PM	#4
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	A confession of sorts; I have thrown my Mandaya spears (9 feet loa) a few times . The targets were compressed bales of peat moss . From 35 feet away the spear went completely through the bale every time . Seems the mass really helps with penetration . My two Moro fighting spears are more like six feet long; much easier IMHO to handle with a shield .

15th February 2008, 05:17 PM	#5
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	LEE HAS A VERY NICE EXAMPLE PROBABLY AROUND 8 FEET LONG THAT WAS PROBABLY USED MOSTLY AS A HAND THRUSTING SPEAR WITH SHIELD. ITS BALANCE AND TAPER ALSO WOULD HAVE MADE IT A GOOD SHORT RANGE THROWING SPEAR, BUT IT WAS TOO NICE FOR ITS OWNER TO HAVE JUST THROWN IT WITHOUT WORRING ABOUT GETTING IT BACK. I SUSPECT IF THROWN THE WARRIOR WOULD BE CLOSING RAPIDLY SWORD DRAWN TO FINNISH HIS ENEMY AND RECLAIM HIS SPEAR. JUST AS LEE WOULD DO IF I TRYED TO RUN OFF WITH HIS SPEAR IF THE MORO HAD SPEARS ONLY FOR THROWING, I SUSPECT THEY WOULD HAVE HAD SMALLER LESS ELABORATE POINTS AND SHORTER LIGHTER CANE, BAMBOO OR RATTAN SHAFTS. THE COST OF MAKEING SUCH SPEARS WOULD BE MUCH LESS AND PERHAPS SEVERAL COULD BE CARRIED AND THROWN BEFORE CLOSING IN WITH THE STRONGER HEAVIER FIGHTING SPEAR ,SHIELD AND SWORD. JUST A GUESS AS I HAVE NOT READ UP ON SPECIFIC MORO FIGHTING TECKNIQUES OR IF I DID, HAVE FORGOTTEN BY NOW .