Kocet-Kocetan hilt form

[Alam Shah]

Originally Posted by Marcokeris

Alam
Before i always thought that this hilt was a horse.
Then, ...reading Kerner's books and other books i ear "Kocet Kocetan" but If i speak with Bali people about this hilt they don't seem to understand well what is "Kocet Kocettan"
Sometimes the hilt has 4 legs (horse ?) more times 6 legs(insect?)
The face of the subject is very ducky indeed

Marco, if shown the hilt, what do they call it there?

Looking into Kerner's Keris-Griffe,
Pg 86, G116, show a mantis with 4 windows and 2 legs;
Pg 87, G120-121, shows an insect head with 6 legs
Pg 87, G123, shows a horse head with 8 legs.

Looking into Tammen's De Kris 2, on Pg 28, described as 'Kocet Kocettan'... possibly an earlier representation, with it's head, looks beak-like.
Pg 29, described as 'Kocet Kocettan','Boktor'... looks like the 2nd picture I've posted but without any gold decorations.
Pg 31, described as 'Kocet Kocettan', 4 legs, neck and belly ornament; head with tiara.
Pg 32, described as 'Kocet Kocettan' modern version, where the head is more horse-like, legs(?) hardly visible (if any).
It's as though I'm repeating what Marco had just said.
So now I'm confused.

Does 'kocet kocettan' have many variants?
Does anyone knows what 'kurisi' means?

Marco, your duck, does look horse-like...

[Marcokeris]

For more confusion: Hamzuri (an indonesian person!) in his keris' books says : horse

[Alam Shah]

To add to the confusion, Suhartono Rahardjo's, in his book... mentioned;

Bali Kocet-kocetan or Kusia, kepompong shape style. In the olden days, this hilt type is reserved for priests or religious leader. It resembles a horse head with the body of "kepompong (?)"...

Does anyone knows what is "Kusia" and what is "kepompong"?

[Alam Shah]

Originally Posted by Marcokeris

For more confusion: Hamzuri (an indonesian person!) in his keris' books says : horse

Yup... you're referring to "Petunjuk Singkat tentang Keris", Fig 9... right? Opps! also appear in Hamzuri, "Keris" pg 32.

[Michel]

If I take Kerner's book : Keris-Griffe, Museum Rietberg Zürich 1996, (this book has only 73 pages and the last photo is N° 70) I cannot find your reference Alam Shah. But my copy of Kerner's book shows on page 34 and 35 two kocet-kocetan handles of Bali and kerners's legend precise on the page 34: a silver handle, of modern technology, with a shape reserved for Brahman. The kocet-kocetan would have a horse head and 6 legs but they are stylized. For me clearly an insect.
On page 35 it is a golden and ebony kocet-kocetan, also an insect, horse head and 4 legs (?). legend say the Balinese handle represent the shape of a beetle, a very old shape initially reserved for the Brahman and which had very probably a deeper mythological content.
My own kocet-kocetan is coming from Bali and when shown to Gaspar de Marval (quite knowledgeable author of "Ukiran a classification of keris handles") was immediately identified as an insect, was named kocetkocetan and was coming from Bali.
Regards
Michel

[Alam Shah]

Michel,
I was referring to the other Kerner's book, "Keris-Griffe - Aus Museen Und Privatsammlungen".

Btw, nice pictures... (this is the one, that looks beetle-like).

[tunggulametung]

Kocetkocetan is a name of a bug in Balinese (I attached a picture from internet). I ask my Balinese friend about kurisi and kusia, both have no meaning to him. Internet search result: Kusia is a name of a banjar in Sawan, Buleleng

In Minang, both kurisi and kusia will have a meaning, kurisi=kursi=chair, kusia=kusir=horse courier

Kepompong is cocoon.

That Kocet is equal to Batara Karpa is the most interesting part....I'll try to dig on this one...

[Alam Shah]

Originally Posted by tunggulametung

Kocetkocetan is a name of a bug in Balinese (I attached a picture from internet).

This makes sense... I thought so, just to confirm. Thanks.

Originally Posted by tunggulametung

I ask my Balinese friend about kurisi and kusia, both have no meaning to him. Internet search result: Kusia is a name of a banjar in Sawan, Buleleng

In Minang, both kurisi and kusia will have a meaning, kurisi=kursi=chair, kusia=kusir=horse courier

Kepompong is cocoon.

As for 'kurisi', horse courier sound more meaningful(?), need to explore...
Ah! cocoon. Thanks again for your help... really appreciate it.

[Marcokeris]

Michel
i would like to know when the name:"kocetkocetan" rise for the first time.
Maybe in the mr. Marval's book "ukiran"? ( perhaps this book was written with the collaboration of Mr. M. Kerner: in the book there are a lot of mr. MK's hits.)
....it would be nice to have mr. Marval or mr. Kerner in the forum...
Marco