Mystery Inscription on Controversial Sword

CharlesS · 27th January 2008, 12:41 PM

Here is the photo I had mentioned earlier. The rifle and, indeed, the architecture(door style) argue strongly that this is a Moroccan.

Jim McDougall · 27th January 2008, 09:49 PM

Thank you very much for posting that Charles. Excellent photo, and I wish I would have had it when I wrote on the "Zanzibar Sword" in 2003!

All best regards,
Jim

josh stout · 30th January 2008, 03:40 PM

I know nothing on this subject, but a quick look at "Ancient Berber (vertical)" (http://www.omniglot.com/writing/berber.htm) looks much more likely than an example of Ethiopian script (http://www.ancientscripts.com/ethiopic.html). I also tried Coptic just for fun, but that just looks like Greek.
Josh

CharlesS · 8th June 2014, 10:43 PM

Is there any agreement on an actual name for this sword???

Jim McDougall · 9th June 2014, 04:31 AM

As far as I have understood, as indicated in post #6 with the references attributed to Charles Buttin, I would regard this to be a Moroccan sboula. As discussed over the years, the Burton reference has classified this as a 'Zanzibar' sword along with the familiar Omani kattara with cylindrical hilt. However the Buttin reference is most reliable and he cites Burton's error in perpetuating the Demmin (1877) reference .
The reason these ended up with Ethiopian association is that an apparent number of these were among weapons shown in the pamphlet "Weapons of Africa" as well as there are examples with Amharic 'geez' script. These are most likely to have arrived there via trade networks.

As always, there is probably no 'agreement' on proper term or attribution but this is my perception over the past 10 or 12 years.

CharlesS · 9th June 2014, 11:44 AM

Jim,

Thanks for the input. I was just trying to get some sense of whether to go with "jiboula" or "sboula" in a catalog I am working on. If Buttin is calling it "sboula" I will go with that.

I had that reference work, but it never crossed my mind to look there!

Thanks again.

blue lander · 9th June 2014, 04:28 PM

What about the Shula dagger/sword? Is this another spelling for sboula/jiboula or something else entirely? They look completely different but I believe they're from Morocco as well.

27th January 2008, 12:41 PM	#1
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,854	Here is the photo I had mentioned earlier. The rifle and, indeed, the architecture(door style) argue strongly that this is a Moroccan. Attached Images Last edited by CharlesS; 27th January 2008 at 12:57 PM.

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27th January 2008, 09:49 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,281	Thank you very much for posting that Charles. Excellent photo, and I wish I would have had it when I wrote on the "Zanzibar Sword" in 2003! All best regards, Jim

30th January 2008, 03:40 PM	#3
josh stout Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 407	I know nothing on this subject, but a quick look at "Ancient Berber (vertical)" (http://www.omniglot.com/writing/berber.htm) looks much more likely than an example of Ethiopian script (http://www.ancientscripts.com/ethiopic.html). I also tried Coptic just for fun, but that just looks like Greek. Josh

8th June 2014, 10:43 PM	#4
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,854	Is there any agreement on an actual name for this sword???

9th June 2014, 04:31 AM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,281	As far as I have understood, as indicated in post #6 with the references attributed to Charles Buttin, I would regard this to be a Moroccan sboula. As discussed over the years, the Burton reference has classified this as a 'Zanzibar' sword along with the familiar Omani kattara with cylindrical hilt. However the Buttin reference is most reliable and he cites Burton's error in perpetuating the Demmin (1877) reference . The reason these ended up with Ethiopian association is that an apparent number of these were among weapons shown in the pamphlet "Weapons of Africa" as well as there are examples with Amharic 'geez' script. These are most likely to have arrived there via trade networks. As always, there is probably no 'agreement' on proper term or attribution but this is my perception over the past 10 or 12 years.

9th June 2014, 11:44 AM	#6
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,854	Jim, Thanks for the input. I was just trying to get some sense of whether to go with "jiboula" or "sboula" in a catalog I am working on. If Buttin is calling it "sboula" I will go with that. I had that reference work, but it never crossed my mind to look there! Thanks again.

9th June 2014, 04:28 PM	#7
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	What about the Shula dagger/sword? Is this another spelling for sboula/jiboula or something else entirely? They look completely different but I believe they're from Morocco as well.