Ming jian

josh stout · 12th January 2008, 04:58 PM

Your history is necessarily painted with broad strokes, but I think it is accurate. What is missing from history however is what was really going on outside the political centers. From the perspective of swords, we think of jian as weapons of the elite, narrow bladed dao as weapons of the military, and wide bladed choppers as weapons of the peasant militias and rebel groups. However, simple village made jian are quite common, and as I have mentioned seem to fall into two groups, the late Qing "militia jian" and the Ming style "iron jian". I am using the two different names simply to differentiate between the two groups. Iron jian with twenty-inch blades are quite common as are militia jian with 24-inch blades. I have full sized chang jian from both groups however. The jian pictured has a 24-inch blade, a bit longer than is usual. Among the early examples the rounded pommels seem to be slightly earlier than the ones with smaller more angular fittings. Another common early to mid Qing weapon is the clipped tip, straight-backed, jian shaped dao. I have been building my collection of village weapons, so I should have several examples to show shortly.

Josh

Jim McDougall · 12th January 2008, 09:21 PM

Thank you very much for the response Josh, and I'm pleased to hear that the history as I perceived it is at least overall somewhat accurate. I know that you are deeply involved in the study of Asian weapons, and have been very impressed with the detail you often bring in on Tibetan, Bhutanese and Nepalese items.
The area you are focusing on with these weapons from villages and various militias and other groups is entirely fascinating, and I look forward to seeing more examples as well as your observations on them. Too often the focus is on the standard items seen in references and in museums, and these examples reflect true ethnography in the wider scope of the culture.

Thanks again Josh!!!

All the best,
Jim

josh stout · 12th January 2008, 11:59 PM

Thanks for the kind words. This one is typical of what Scott Rodell has termed a "militia jian". It has a 24-inch blade but weighs 1K so it maneuvers like a longer but lighter jian. It is probably late 19th c., and is typical of village manufacture with a Chinese elmwood handle and a heavy iron pommel and guard. In this case the pommel is somewhat unusual in that it was coated in brass to imitate high-class jian.

Josh

http://s77.photobucket.com/albums/j6...current=00.jpg

http://s77.photobucket.com/albums/j6...rrent=01-1.jpg

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12th January 2008, 04:58 PM	#1
josh stout Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 407	Your history is necessarily painted with broad strokes, but I think it is accurate. What is missing from history however is what was really going on outside the political centers. From the perspective of swords, we think of jian as weapons of the elite, narrow bladed dao as weapons of the military, and wide bladed choppers as weapons of the peasant militias and rebel groups. However, simple village made jian are quite common, and as I have mentioned seem to fall into two groups, the late Qing "militia jian" and the Ming style "iron jian". I am using the two different names simply to differentiate between the two groups. Iron jian with twenty-inch blades are quite common as are militia jian with 24-inch blades. I have full sized chang jian from both groups however. The jian pictured has a 24-inch blade, a bit longer than is usual. Among the early examples the rounded pommels seem to be slightly earlier than the ones with smaller more angular fittings. Another common early to mid Qing weapon is the clipped tip, straight-backed, jian shaped dao. I have been building my collection of village weapons, so I should have several examples to show shortly. Josh

12th January 2008, 09:21 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,506	Thank you very much for the response Josh, and I'm pleased to hear that the history as I perceived it is at least overall somewhat accurate. I know that you are deeply involved in the study of Asian weapons, and have been very impressed with the detail you often bring in on Tibetan, Bhutanese and Nepalese items. The area you are focusing on with these weapons from villages and various militias and other groups is entirely fascinating, and I look forward to seeing more examples as well as your observations on them. Too often the focus is on the standard items seen in references and in museums, and these examples reflect true ethnography in the wider scope of the culture. Thanks again Josh!!! All the best, Jim

12th January 2008, 11:59 PM	#3
josh stout Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 407	Thanks for the kind words. This one is typical of what Scott Rodell has termed a "militia jian". It has a 24-inch blade but weighs 1K so it maneuvers like a longer but lighter jian. It is probably late 19th c., and is typical of village manufacture with a Chinese elmwood handle and a heavy iron pommel and guard. In this case the pommel is somewhat unusual in that it was coated in brass to imitate high-class jian. Josh http://s77.photobucket.com/albums/j6...current=00.jpg http://s77.photobucket.com/albums/j6...rrent=01-1.jpg