Looking for Information on this Kris.

A. G. Maisey · 12th January 2008, 03:18 AM

The example I quoted was obtained in Sumatra by a seaman who worked on trading ships and was supposedly taken from a Sumatran gentleman in a fight. That could be family legend, but this information was given to me in an honest fashion and situation.

I've seen other stuff too that was a mix. Recently had a piece obtained as a gift in the the 1930's from a village chief in Sumatra referred to me. From memory that was Bugis/Jawa/ Palembang + some unidentifiable part ---forget the precise details, but it was a total mix.

Yeah, western collectors mix things too, as do dealers, but it has been happening in local areas for years also.

David · 12th January 2008, 05:40 AM

That's a funky looking sheath on that example you posted Alan. Beautiful wood.

I certainly won't argue that occasionally you will find a bugis keris from an indigenous source with this type of hilt orientation...but i just can't imagine what kind of proper grip the owner could have when using his keris as a weapon.

Alam Shah · 12th January 2008, 05:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

That's a funky looking sheath on that example you posted Alan. Beautiful wood.

I certainly won't argue that occasionally you will find a bugis keris from an indigenous source with this type of hilt orientation...but i just can't imagine what kind of proper grip the owner could have when using his keris as a weapon.

Alan's example reminds me of my piece... [ see here ].
As for hilt orientation, I've seen pieces fixed solid to that orientation, (an example would be one of Paul de Souza's piece). David, I can't imagine as well.

If the wielder is a left hander (like myself), the blade orientation would also be at an angle from the other side.

A. G. Maisey · 12th January 2008, 07:21 AM

Yeah, its quite pretty, and similar to Sharial's example. I do have others with this back to front handle, but I knew where this one was and could grab it immediately without having to look for it. I've wondered about the weapon function myself, and have thought that maybe it is turned back to front like this for some social reason, possibly indicating that the owner does not use it as a weapon for some reason or other.

Incidentally, the blade is also similar.

Gavin Nugent · 12th January 2008, 08:06 AM

Hi guys, I have attached a photo of my oversized hands holding this blade and it seems very natural and where my forefinger is adds a lot of support, I thought I'd just include it for reference.

thanks again

Gav

Alam Shah · 12th January 2008, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freebooter

Hi guys, I have attached a photo of my oversized hands holding this blade and it seems very natural and where my forefinger is adds a lot of support, I thought I'd just include it for reference.

thanks again

Gav

The blade is supposed to be horizontal when held. Search the forum, there are a few pictures of how a keris is held.

BluErf · 12th January 2008, 02:41 PM

Hi,

I think this keris is a Straits Bugis keris, and most likely from the Sumatran side.

The tapering batang and the style of the buntut tekak lipas ("cockroach throat") is not typical of peninsula malaysia; it is not so rounded, and the 'v' part bordering the batang is too far apart.

The other hint is the hilt. Peninsula hulu kerdas usually does not curve that much downwards.

The sampir is probably congruent with the Riau-Lingga style, though many people would confuse it with the very similar Terengganu style. The Riau-Lingga sampir style has a 'fuller body' and usually a more curving top line.

David · 13th January 2008, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alam Shah

The blade is supposed to be horizontal when held. Search the forum, there are a few pictures of how a keris is held.

Gavin, Shahrial is absolutely correct on this. The way you are holding your keris with it's opposite hilt orientation is not the way one generally would use a keris in a fight. I have attached a some photos from past threads, but if you search the forums you will no doubt find some more.

Alam Shah · 12th January 2008, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

... I've wondered about the weapon function myself, and have thought that maybe it is turned back to front like this for some social reason, possibly indicating that the owner does not use it as a weapon for some reason or other.

Incidentally, the blade is also similar.

For social function's perhaps... but why secure it at that position rendering the weapon less effective?

If the blade is similar, I would be interested in the piece...

A. G. Maisey · 12th January 2008, 12:19 PM

Very similar Shahrial, and I myself am most interested in this keris. I have been looking after it for about 40 something years now, I brought back from total destruction --- the burl wrongko was in pieces, the blade was bent and in very poor condition. This keris is a very good friend of mine.

I did not mean "social functions", I meant for a reason associated with society--- ie, a social reason.

12th January 2008, 08:06 AM	#5
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Holding this Kris Hi guys, I have attached a photo of my oversized hands holding this blade and it seems very natural and where my forefinger is adds a lot of support, I thought I'd just include it for reference. thanks again Gav Attached Images

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12th January 2008, 03:18 AM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,217	The example I quoted was obtained in Sumatra by a seaman who worked on trading ships and was supposedly taken from a Sumatran gentleman in a fight. That could be family legend, but this information was given to me in an honest fashion and situation. I've seen other stuff too that was a mix. Recently had a piece obtained as a gift in the the 1930's from a village chief in Sumatra referred to me. From memory that was Bugis/Jawa/ Palembang + some unidentifiable part ---forget the precise details, but it was a total mix. Yeah, western collectors mix things too, as do dealers, but it has been happening in local areas for years also.

12th January 2008, 05:40 AM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,289	That's a funky looking sheath on that example you posted Alan. Beautiful wood. I certainly won't argue that occasionally you will find a bugis keris from an indigenous source with this type of hilt orientation...but i just can't imagine what kind of proper grip the owner could have when using his keris as a weapon.

12th January 2008, 07:21 AM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,217	Yeah, its quite pretty, and similar to Sharial's example. I do have others with this back to front handle, but I knew where this one was and could grab it immediately without having to look for it. I've wondered about the weapon function myself, and have thought that maybe it is turned back to front like this for some social reason, possibly indicating that the owner does not use it as a weapon for some reason or other. Incidentally, the blade is also similar.

12th January 2008, 02:41 PM	#7
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Hi, I think this keris is a Straits Bugis keris, and most likely from the Sumatran side. The tapering batang and the style of the buntut tekak lipas ("cockroach throat") is not typical of peninsula malaysia; it is not so rounded, and the 'v' part bordering the batang is too far apart. The other hint is the hilt. Peninsula hulu kerdas usually does not curve that much downwards. The sampir is probably congruent with the Riau-Lingga style, though many people would confuse it with the very similar Terengganu style. The Riau-Lingga sampir style has a 'fuller body' and usually a more curving top line.

12th January 2008, 12:19 PM	#10
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,217	Very similar Shahrial, and I myself am most interested in this keris. I have been looking after it for about 40 something years now, I brought back from total destruction --- the burl wrongko was in pieces, the blade was bent and in very poor condition. This keris is a very good friend of mine. I did not mean "social functions", I meant for a reason associated with society--- ie, a social reason.