Balinese Keris Help

Sang Keris · 15th March 2005, 09:42 AM

mans ,.. don't argue..
...thts useless....

let people say whatever they wanna say,,,..

im out....

Andrew · 15th March 2005, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sang Keris

mans ,.. don't argue..
...thts useless....

let people say whatever they wanna say,,,..

im out....

Sang, I don't think Rick and Mans were arguing. It seemed like a respectful disagreement and discussion. Personally, I was hoping you'd come along and talk about your keris too.

It was quite a beautiful piece.

Rick · 15th March 2005, 05:05 PM

Sang , I'm sorry if you are offended by my observations , I will stand by my opinion though .

If this forum is for polite agreement only and not sharing differing observations and opinions then it is worthless and should be closed .

Mans · 16th March 2005, 02:12 AM

Hi guys,

I think Jacob still waiting for some good opinion, did you Jacob ?

I think Jacob have many nice Balinese keris, specifically keris which posted first.

Regards,
Mans.

Rick · 16th March 2005, 02:49 AM

Mans ,
How do you know that Jacob purchased this piece ?

Mans · 16th March 2005, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Mans ,
How do you know that Jacob purchased this piece ?

Dear Rick,
I think it is just small detective play

I saw in eBay that the winning bidder is : jcbxly from USA

and "Jacob" is the one who posted in this thread and asking about this keris..... so

I just supposed that "JCB" must be "Jacob"

I think that is not too hard to figure it out

To Jacob:
Sorry if I was saying about that. I hope you don't feel scruples about my suspicion

Till now, I don't have Balinese keris

, so..., if someone posted the Balinese keris, I feel comfortable to hear the discussion about it.

Regards,
Mans

Rick · 16th March 2005, 10:45 PM

Hi Mans ,

Here are a couple of examples of Bali keris that I have owned .
Yes , the top picture has been flipped .
One of them now belongs to another forum member .
Please forgive the poor quality of the pictures .

Feel free to discuss .

VANDOO · 30th May 2005, 04:41 PM

I WOULD SUSPECT THESE KERIS WERE MADE WITHIN THE LAST 60 YEARS THE BLADES MIGHT BE OLDER BUT THE FITTINGS ARE RECENT. HAVING SAID THAT I WILL SAY THAT THE CRAFTSMEN OF BALI ARE DOING A GOOD JOB AND THE GOOD RECENT STUFF IS WORTHY OF COLLECTING. THE STONES ARE AS MENTIONED REAL BUT COMMON LOW GRADE SPECIMINS THERE ARE RUBYS PROBABLY STAR TYPES WHICH ARE COMMON BUT MOSTLY FLAWED THE GOOD ONES ARE RARE AND EXPENSIVE AND ONLY TO BE FOUND ON THE TOP QUALITY BALI KERIS. THERE APPEAR TO BE TWO WHITE MOONSTONES, 3 RUBYS AND A BLACK STAR SAPPHIRE FROM THAILAND IN HIS BREACH CLOTH WHICH WILL HELP YOU IDENTIFY SOME OF THE OTHERS. THERE ARE SOME BLUE STAR SAPPHIRE AND SOME OTHER STONES I CANT BE SURE OF. THE MEDAK HAS WHAT APPEAR TO BE GREEN STONES POSSIBLY JADE OR IMITATION IMPOSSIBLE TO TELL FROM PICTURES. THE SILVER WORK IS MUCH BETTER ON THE PENDOK THAN ON THE HANDLE, THE VERY BEST QUALITY BALINESE KERIS HAVE BETTER CARVING AND STONES BUT WE WON'T BE SEEING MANY OF THOSE AS I THINK THEY ARE MOSTLY MADE ON COMISSION FOR PEOPLE OF WEALTH. I THINK IT IS A NICE KERIS AND WOULD BE GLAD TO HAVE IT IN MY COLLECTION.

THE KERIS ON EBAY ALSO LOOKS RECENT AND THE HANDLE IS A BLENDING OF TWO TRADITIONAL BALI TYPES AND LOOKS QUITE NICE. THE CRAFTSMEN OF BALI ARE VERY TALENTED AND ARE TURNING OUT SOME GOOD WORK AS WELL AS SOME INFERIOR EXAMPLES BUT IF YOU CAN GO FOR A VISIT AND HAVE DEEP POCKETS, YOU CAN FIND SOME EXCELLENT KERIS AS WELL AS OTHER WEAPONS. I SUSPECT SOME OF THE RARE WEAPONS OF THE OTHER ISLANDS IN THE INDONESIAN SPHERE ARE BEING MADE THERE, OR PERHAPS MADE IN OTHER LOCATIONS AND SHIPPED THERE FOR SALE. BALI IS A WORLD MARKET FOR FUN AND SOUVINEERS AND ALL QUALITYS AND BOTH THE REAL AND FABRICATED ANTIQUES CAN BE FOUND THERE. THIS KEEPS IT INTERESTING AND IS NOT A BAD THING BUT AS IT IS EVERYWHERE ELSE, THE BUYER MUST BE CAUTIOUS.

BluErf · 10th June 2005, 05:25 PM

My opinion: The blade is the oldest part of the keris, and I agree its probably mid to late 19th century max. The handle, sheath and pendok are probably all late 20th century work (if you are 'lucky', maybe there were made just a few months before the sale

). The older Balinese pieces rarely had full pendok. Rather, they cover only the back of the batang, exposing the front, which is usually pelet wood. Having said that, I have seen a most fantastic example in the book "Royal Gifts from Indonesia", which shows a Balinese keris with a sandang walikat sheath completely encased in gold sheet, and with the image of Kala embossed/repoussed on it. It was accentuated by many many (>50 I think) jewellery grade diamonds. The hilt was Nava Sari, also in the same high-carat gold sheet, encrusted with numerous jewellery grade diamonds. You need sunglasses to look at that keris or risk going blind.

The sheath of this example we are talking about is made from ebony, as is the handle. Ebony is a popular choice recently because good pelet wood is next to impossible to find. Silver pendok adorned with low-grade sapphire and rubies seemed to be a 20th century affair. The older sheaths rarely had them on the pendok, and the hilts typically use red or black gems, not blue, or even the green you see these days. Silver can be made to look old easily (ie greyish patina).

15th March 2005, 09:42 AM	#1
Sang Keris Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Indonesia Posts: 46	mans ,.. don't argue.. ...thts useless.... let people say whatever they wanna say,,,.. im out.... Last edited by Sang Keris; 15th March 2005 at 12:59 PM.

16th March 2005, 10:45 PM	#7
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,376	Hi Mans , Here are a couple of examples of Bali keris that I have owned . Yes , the top picture has been flipped . One of them now belongs to another forum member . Please forgive the poor quality of the pictures . Feel free to discuss . Attached Images Last edited by Rick; 17th March 2005 at 01:07 AM. Reason: picture of second keris removed at new owner's request

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15th March 2005, 05:05 PM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,376	Sang , I'm sorry if you are offended by my observations , I will stand by my opinion though . If this forum is for polite agreement only and not sharing differing observations and opinions then it is worthless and should be closed .

16th March 2005, 02:12 AM	#4
Mans Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: East Java Posts: 137	Hi guys, I think Jacob still waiting for some good opinion, did you Jacob ? I think Jacob have many nice Balinese keris, specifically keris which posted first. Regards, Mans.

16th March 2005, 02:49 AM	#5
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,376	Mans , How do you know that Jacob purchased this piece ?

30th May 2005, 04:41 PM	#8
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	I WOULD SUSPECT THESE KERIS WERE MADE WITHIN THE LAST 60 YEARS THE BLADES MIGHT BE OLDER BUT THE FITTINGS ARE RECENT. HAVING SAID THAT I WILL SAY THAT THE CRAFTSMEN OF BALI ARE DOING A GOOD JOB AND THE GOOD RECENT STUFF IS WORTHY OF COLLECTING. THE STONES ARE AS MENTIONED REAL BUT COMMON LOW GRADE SPECIMINS THERE ARE RUBYS PROBABLY STAR TYPES WHICH ARE COMMON BUT MOSTLY FLAWED THE GOOD ONES ARE RARE AND EXPENSIVE AND ONLY TO BE FOUND ON THE TOP QUALITY BALI KERIS. THERE APPEAR TO BE TWO WHITE MOONSTONES, 3 RUBYS AND A BLACK STAR SAPPHIRE FROM THAILAND IN HIS BREACH CLOTH WHICH WILL HELP YOU IDENTIFY SOME OF THE OTHERS. THERE ARE SOME BLUE STAR SAPPHIRE AND SOME OTHER STONES I CANT BE SURE OF. THE MEDAK HAS WHAT APPEAR TO BE GREEN STONES POSSIBLY JADE OR IMITATION IMPOSSIBLE TO TELL FROM PICTURES. THE SILVER WORK IS MUCH BETTER ON THE PENDOK THAN ON THE HANDLE, THE VERY BEST QUALITY BALINESE KERIS HAVE BETTER CARVING AND STONES BUT WE WON'T BE SEEING MANY OF THOSE AS I THINK THEY ARE MOSTLY MADE ON COMISSION FOR PEOPLE OF WEALTH. I THINK IT IS A NICE KERIS AND WOULD BE GLAD TO HAVE IT IN MY COLLECTION. THE KERIS ON EBAY ALSO LOOKS RECENT AND THE HANDLE IS A BLENDING OF TWO TRADITIONAL BALI TYPES AND LOOKS QUITE NICE. THE CRAFTSMEN OF BALI ARE VERY TALENTED AND ARE TURNING OUT SOME GOOD WORK AS WELL AS SOME INFERIOR EXAMPLES BUT IF YOU CAN GO FOR A VISIT AND HAVE DEEP POCKETS, YOU CAN FIND SOME EXCELLENT KERIS AS WELL AS OTHER WEAPONS. I SUSPECT SOME OF THE RARE WEAPONS OF THE OTHER ISLANDS IN THE INDONESIAN SPHERE ARE BEING MADE THERE, OR PERHAPS MADE IN OTHER LOCATIONS AND SHIPPED THERE FOR SALE. BALI IS A WORLD MARKET FOR FUN AND SOUVINEERS AND ALL QUALITYS AND BOTH THE REAL AND FABRICATED ANTIQUES CAN BE FOUND THERE. THIS KEEPS IT INTERESTING AND IS NOT A BAD THING BUT AS IT IS EVERYWHERE ELSE, THE BUYER MUST BE CAUTIOUS.

10th June 2005, 05:25 PM	#9
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	My opinion: The blade is the oldest part of the keris, and I agree its probably mid to late 19th century max. The handle, sheath and pendok are probably all late 20th century work (if you are 'lucky', maybe there were made just a few months before the sale ). The older Balinese pieces rarely had full pendok. Rather, they cover only the back of the batang, exposing the front, which is usually pelet wood. Having said that, I have seen a most fantastic example in the book "Royal Gifts from Indonesia", which shows a Balinese keris with a sandang walikat sheath completely encased in gold sheet, and with the image of Kala embossed/repoussed on it. It was accentuated by many many (>50 I think) jewellery grade diamonds. The hilt was Nava Sari, also in the same high-carat gold sheet, encrusted with numerous jewellery grade diamonds. You need sunglasses to look at that keris or risk going blind. The sheath of this example we are talking about is made from ebony, as is the handle. Ebony is a popular choice recently because good pelet wood is next to impossible to find. Silver pendok adorned with low-grade sapphire and rubies seemed to be a 20th century affair. The older sheaths rarely had them on the pendok, and the hilts typically use red or black gems, not blue, or even the green you see these days. Silver can be made to look old easily (ie greyish patina).