Bugis keris

[nechesh]

Originally Posted by DAHenkel

Still, I'd love to see people's reactions when you march into the bale of the Kraton Solo in full formal Javanese costume with this "Javanese" keris tucked into your kemben.

You're probably right there Dave, that would probably be a bit of a faux pas. However, how easy would it be for me to just change the dress of this keris before entering the Kraton and then change it back again on my return to the Peninsula. The blade remains what it is regardless of the dress. Recently i believe you or Kai Wee posted a photo of yourselves in Malay dress complete with your keris. You guys looked stunning. i might add. Add to this authentic dress the fact that you speak the language flawlessly and are totally emersed in the culture. Still, i have to wonder if when people see you there they think, "There goes a Malaysian man". At the end of the day you are still a human of the European gene pool dressed in Malay clothing. Nothing wrong with that, mind you, but you are still who you are. You can't deny or erase your origin, nor do i think you should try. IMO it is the same with keris.

Kai Wee, i cannot see how i can put the dress of a keris on an equal footing with the blade. If that's what you mean by going to the other extreme, it's too late, am already there. If i had just the blade it would not be at all unusual to commission new dress for it. Living outside the culture as i do i would probably choose to dress it most appropriately to the origin of the blade. If i lived within the culture i would probably dress it according to my own local custom. But have you ever heard of someone commisioning a blade for dress that had lost it's blade? That seems rather an unlikely scenerio. The angsar, the power that resides in the keris, resides in the blade, not the sheath. Yes, it is true that a keris is incomplete with a sheath, but that doesn't make the sheath as important as the keris itself. The dress can always be added. The blade, with it's angsar, is the heart of it all.
Actually, though you will find many well assimilated Americans, many will refer to themselves as African-Americans, German-Americans, Italian-Americans, Irish-Americans, etc., especially around the holidays that relate to their ancestrial countries of origin (try coming to Cincinati during OktoberFest and see how many people here are German). Note that in these configurations the ancestrial country comes before Americans.

When holes like this appear in the sogokan it is generally worn through from years of acid washing. These slits are so even though, that i suspect someone may have helped this process along with some additional filing. These are often confused with the mystical holes which Alam Shah refers to, know as cemplong (i have sometimes seen this written combong). Cemplong are clearly placed there by the empu and the owner of the keris is supposed to be able to obtain what he spys through the hole(s) while chanting the appropriate mantras.

[tom hyle]

Thanks

[BluErf]

Originally Posted by nechesh

Kai Wee, i cannot see how i can put the dress of a keris on an equal footing with the blade. If that's what you mean by going to the other extreme, it's too late, am already there. If i had just the blade it would not be at all unusual to commission new dress for it. Living outside the culture as i do i would probably choose to dress it most appropriately to the origin of the blade. If i lived within the culture i would probably dress it according to my own local custom. But have you ever heard of someone commisioning a blade for dress that had lost it's blade? That seems rather an unlikely scenerio. The angsar, the power that resides in the keris, resides in the blade, not the sheath. Yes, it is true that a keris is incomplete with a sheath, but that doesn't make the sheath as important as the keris itself. The dress can always be added. The blade, with it's angsar, is the heart of it all.
Actually, though you will find many well assimilated Americans, many will refer to themselves as African-Americans, German-Americans, Italian-Americans, Irish-Americans, etc., especially around the holidays that relate to their ancestrial countries of origin (try coming to Cincinati during OktoberFest and see how many people here are German). Note that in these configurations the ancestrial country comes before Americans.

You should read "The Spirit of Wood". There is 'semangat' in the wood too. And I might say the way you talk about sheaths and handles almost suggests that a well-made sheath and handle can be gotten easily. I hope you appreciate the pains and efforts that the miranggi/wood carver puts into acquiring the wood, curing it, selecting the best piece, and of course, actually carving it into a beautiful piece of artwork. First class keris sheaths and handles can melt you as easily as first class keris blades.

While no one would commission a blade to fit a sheath, I assure you that a beautiful sheath without a blade can always be fitted with a blade. I've seen that done many times.

Your point on Americans of various origins -- you just made my point. What was the common link amongst them all -- "American"! So a Javanese keris dressed in Terengganu parts, and a Bugis keris dressed in Terengganu parts, and a Terengganu keris dressed in Terengganu parts are... [you can complete the sentence].

Hi Tom -- while clothes don't make a man, I'm sure good clothes would certainly open many doors. And I'm not quite sure what you meant by the proper dress phenomenon is not an old/traditional or Southeast Asian. If its with respect to kerises, it certainly is not right to say so. Discounting the 'tourist trade', the keris dress is defined by tradition/'adat'. If there is no 'adat', we could not have possibly differentiated between Sulawesi kerises from Balinese kerises from Riau kerises from Minang kerises, etc.

[Montino Bourbon]

You gentlemen might be amused by this keris; Blade bought from Capt. Smash on ebay, handle of African Pink Ivory wood by my friend in Bali, and sheath of rosewood trimmed with pink ivory and ebony by... yours truly!
(And by the way... it's a perfect fit, and doesn't rattle in the sheath, except to warn me of approaching danger!)

[nechesh]

Yes Kai Wee, i own "Spirit of Wood". Of course there is spirit and power in the wood. I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "the way you talk about sheaths and handles almost suggests that a well-made sheath and handle can be gotten easily. I hope you appreciate the pains and efforts that the miranggi/wood carver puts into acquiring the wood, curing it, selecting the best piece, and of course, actually carving it into a beautiful piece of artwork."
I don't believe there is anything that i said that suggests i think that. Sheaths can be great works of art and beauty on to themselves. My ONLY point was that the iron is the MOST important part. Now it has been brought to my attention, and rightfully so, i believe, that we are in a sense both right, but coming from different perspectives. Certainly, to the collector a sheath can be as highly prized as the blade itself, perhaps more so in some cases. But from the cultural perspective, the blade will always be the most highly prized part. I guess it all depends on which side of the mountain you are approaching from.
Dave, likewise your points are well taken. But my problem with using dress as a method for classification is in some ways linked to the "FrakenKeris" example which you have shown. There are, of course, many good reasons why, for instance, a Javanese keris might end up in a Peninsula dress. Good cultural reasons. But these days we see more and more combos (many much more subtle and attractive than the one you show) that are merely some dealers way of making a keris more saleable with a nice fancy dress. I am sure that there are many examples on the market that we will never be able to determine for sure whether it was cross dressed to suit the local customs of an indigenious owner or to make it more attractive to a western buyer. So, for me, to use the manner of dress as a means of keris classification can be meaningless if the cultural history it implies is incorrect or nonexistent.
I do concede that the entire ensemble of blade and dress is rightfully referred to as "the keris". But also it is true that the blade itself is rightfully referred to as "the keris". However, a sheath and hilt, standing alone, without a blade, regardless of how beautiful and spirit-filled it may be would never be referred to as "the keris".

[DAHenkel]

Originally Posted by BluErf

Your point on Americans of various origins -- you just made my point. What was the common link amongst them all -- "American"! So a Javanese keris dressed in Terengganu parts, and a Bugis keris dressed in Terengganu parts, and a Terengganu keris dressed in Terengganu parts are... [you can complete the sentence].

Terengganu Americans?

[nechesh]

Originally Posted by DAHenkel

Terengganu Americans?

LOL!

[Alam Shah]

Capt Smash's piece is "Balinese American". (Unique in its own class.)
At least its complete with a sheath and fittings.
In my opinion, Maduranese and Balinese pieces are much more varied than others.

[Bill]

Received the keris today & I'm quite happy with it. The holes have been helped along with a file. Likely done mid-20C with the dress as Dave has placed it. The dress is better than I expected, but nothing spectacular. There is conciderable loss to the blade & quite a bit of rust. Can this blade be South Sulawesi? Bought this blade because it struck me as simular craftsmanship of my "Moro" kris that I suspect is also from Sulawesi, can't say that I have changed my mind after putting them side by side. Quite surprised to find characters on the top of the ganga & specks of gold, coincidental with this current tread http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=432 . Saddly, there is also conciderable loss to this area of the ganga as well as quite a bit of dirt & rust. No animals, just characters, the work is so tiny, I'm amazed that it could even be done. As it is now, nothing is distinguishable, & a good cleaning will remove the last specks of gold as well as likely continue the loss of metal. Would be very interesting to find out if it is either Java or Bugis script.

[Alam Shah]

Well Bill, first and foremost, congrats. I wondered where this piece went.
Why not take a few shots and let us see this piece in its current condition.
The eBay pics does not tell much about the piece. Do a close-up on the script, please.
We can start commenting again from the top...

[tom hyle]

Originally Posted by BluErf

Hi Tom -- while clothes don't make a man, I'm sure good clothes would certainly open many doors. And I'm not quite sure what you meant by the proper dress phenomenon is not an old/traditional or Southeast Asian. If its with respect to kerises, it certainly is not right to say so. Discounting the 'tourist trade', the keris dress is defined by tradition/'adat'. If there is no 'adat', we could not have possibly differentiated between Sulawesi kerises from Balinese kerises from Riau kerises from Minang kerises, etc.

Perhaps you have misunderstood me, but I do not think you are correct. Allow me to explain. What would traditionally be done/appreciated by traditional kris appreciators (ie oceanic SE Asians) is not, at least to my understanding AT ALL to put say a Bali kris in Bali dress. Not at all not at all; rather to put whatever blade you get in the dress native to you, the owner (caretaker, etc....). So in the past if/when a Javanese acquired a Bugis k(e)ris and he considered it worthy to keep, he might conceivably leave it in whatever dress it came with, but he would certainly not get the idea, (say it were naked or poorly dressed or he couldn't stand/comprehend its dress) that the proper thing to do would be to dress it Bugis style; no, I cannot see that; he would dress it Javanese.

[BluErf]

Hi Tom,

I don't think we are in disagreement. I think we are just talking about different things. I agree fully with what you said here. That's why the Javanese blade ended up in the Terengganu sheath, and why Hang Tuah would have redressed Taming Sari in a Malay-style sheath.

The sheath in which the kerises are dressed in would no doubt be adherent to the 'adat' of the new owner's culture. I.e. while the blade is foreign, the dress is traditional.

Adat defines a Solonese sheath, which would be different from the adat that governs a Yogya sheath, from a Gayo sheath, from a Pattani sheath, from a Minang sheath, etc etc.

[Bill]

Here is the pics of the top of the ganga, but likely done when doctoring the keris. Sorry about the quality but its probably meaningless.

[Alam Shah]

Maybe it was something like this before...

[Bill]

Alam Shah, would think that is the effect someone attempted to copy, the gandik area was intentionally pitted, likely to hold some gold there also. Empu Kumis posted this link: http://www.maritimeasia.ws/topic/iron.html , that seems to touch on "trade blades". Can anyone supply more on this, time periods, other swords? What was the demand for these keris if the customer is once or twice removed from the Empu, sort of deminishes the mystic aspect, & the keris does'nt seem to be the best weapon. Is there a "standard" or examples of what is typical about the trade blades. If only brittal Chinese iron was used would they not generally lack pamor & brake easily if used?