1818 Article on Watering Persian Swords

Emanuel · 19th September 2007, 02:15 AM

Hi Rand, interesting article.

If I understood the process, the smith first annealed the blade and then rehardened it through an oil quench. Lastly he re-etched the blade to bring out the pattern. I got the impression that the author believed the entire process was necessary in order to get the pattern, but if I'm not mistaken the heat treatment was unnecessary for this purpose. Isn't the pattern a result of the initial cooling of the crucible ingot from liquid phase? I think the heat treat may have refined the grain structure but the pattern must have been inherently in the steel.

Wasn't wootz still being produced in India at this time?

Regards,
Emanuel

rand · 19th September 2007, 02:39 AM

Manolo,

Pretty much agree with everything you say, what I thought was interesting was that this was published in 1818 and had a description from the time of use.

Based on how we rewater blades today what is done in the article seems unneccessay......

On the other hand, what if that is how blades were truely rewatered at the time of use and we could reproduce an actual finish which any restorer of Persian blades will tell you is very, very difficult. Was just a very interesting article on a rarely published subject at that time.

The is another article from the same magazine on the rewatering of Persian gun barrels will post later, am a slow typer and takes me a while to copy these.

rand

Emanuel · 19th September 2007, 02:54 AM

Hi Rand,

It would indeed be nice to have this process applied these days. Ingredients might be hard to get though...Druze land is not the most accessible of places these days.

What is the name of the article? I might be able to get it through my university as we have access to loads of scanned literature from worldwide sources.

Emanuel

rand · 19th September 2007, 04:16 AM

Hey Emanuel,

Here is a link to the site with the article, if you have access to it where you can can copy would save a me lot of time typing.

http://books.google.com/books?id=znQ...88QjrJFll0iOR0

Or do a search for Persian firearms Annual Register.... rewatering will be in description.

rand

DaveS · 19th September 2007, 04:53 AM

Emanuel: This article is also in Elgoods Arms And Armor Of Arabia In The Eighteenth, Ninteenth And Twentieth Century. This is a very good source of information on the weapons of the arabian peninsula.......Dave.

19th September 2007, 02:39 AM	#2
rand Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 539	Damascening Process Manolo, Pretty much agree with everything you say, what I thought was interesting was that this was published in 1818 and had a description from the time of use. Based on how we rewater blades today what is done in the article seems unneccessay...... On the other hand, what if that is how blades were truely rewatered at the time of use and we could reproduce an actual finish which any restorer of Persian blades will tell you is very, very difficult. Was just a very interesting article on a rarely published subject at that time. The is another article from the same magazine on the rewatering of Persian gun barrels will post later, am a slow typer and takes me a while to copy these. rand

19th September 2007, 04:16 AM	#4
rand Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 539	Link to site with article Hey Emanuel, Here is a link to the site with the article, if you have access to it where you can can copy would save a me lot of time typing. http://books.google.com/books?id=znQ...88QjrJFll0iOR0 Or do a search for Persian firearms Annual Register.... rewatering will be in description. rand

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19th September 2007, 02:15 AM	#1
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Hi Rand, interesting article. If I understood the process, the smith first annealed the blade and then rehardened it through an oil quench. Lastly he re-etched the blade to bring out the pattern. I got the impression that the author believed the entire process was necessary in order to get the pattern, but if I'm not mistaken the heat treatment was unnecessary for this purpose. Isn't the pattern a result of the initial cooling of the crucible ingot from liquid phase? I think the heat treat may have refined the grain structure but the pattern must have been inherently in the steel. Wasn't wootz still being produced in India at this time? Regards, Emanuel

19th September 2007, 02:54 AM	#3
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Hi Rand, It would indeed be nice to have this process applied these days. Ingredients might be hard to get though...Druze land is not the most accessible of places these days. What is the name of the article? I might be able to get it through my university as we have access to loads of scanned literature from worldwide sources. Emanuel

19th September 2007, 04:53 AM	#5
DaveS Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 327	Emanuel: This article is also in Elgoods Arms And Armor Of Arabia In The Eighteenth, Ninteenth And Twentieth Century. This is a very good source of information on the weapons of the arabian peninsula.......Dave.