Ivory hilt dagger with "Tears" and a "Smiley?"

[spiral]

Its identifiably different Jens by the angles of intersection of the cross hatching. {Schreger lines.}

Usualy Elephant is nearer 90 degrees & mammoth nearer 115 degrees in the outer areas of tusk.

But if several angle measuments are taken of any ivory piece in questian all elephant samples have averages above 100 degrees, and all the extinct proboscideans or {mammoths}have angle averages below 100 degrees.

Also Siberian Mamoth ivory is heavier & harder than Elephant ivory. i dont know about other sources of mammoth but they I am aware they are not usualy of the high quality of the Siberian material.

I think Mammoth ivory has been used on South East Asian pieces before & there was also a big market in Europe in it pre. 1900 with parcels of up to 20 tons auctioned at a time in Liverpool ,Antwerp & London. So I expect it could turn up anywhere.

Spiral

[Jens Nordlunde]

Thank you for the answer, the amount of mammoth ivory sold on auction surprised me a lot, so you are right – maybe, with a lot of luck, I will one day hold a mammoth ivory hilted dagger in my hand – the problem is, that I may not know it. Imagine how old that ivory is. It is also interesting to know that the Siberian mammoth ivory is harder and heavier than the elephant ivory. The mammoth ivory used in India and what was shipped to Europe for sale, could well have come from Siberia. Where else did/do you find so many mammoths?

[spiral]

Sorry for my lack of clarity Jens, The lots auctioned in Europe came from Siberia.

I havent seen it on Indian weapons but have heard of it used in the Malayan archipeligo. But others here would know more about that, I am sure.

i think lots is found in the North sea when drilling for oil etc but it is badly damaged, & discoloured some is found through out northen & eastern europe, & Alsaka as well. Others places to I expect.

But the good stuff is Siberian. it weights 20% to 30% more on average than Elephant.

Spiral

[Mare Rosu]

Spiral:
Sir, you are most correct, knowledge is a great power and you have supplied me with a lot of power from your excellent postings on Ivory. I did learn a lot from the hands on inspection from the handle material folks, but your posting were far more informative and technical. Showing me a picture I took and explaining what was in the picture. Information that I did not know was there, until you pointed it out, hard to believe!

Rand;
Thank you, as well, for the information about the material on my dagger handle, your "leaning" was right on. Do you think we could get Spiral to start a thread on his ivory knowledge, as you suggested? He said he is just learning about ivory, fine, I will take anything he offers. How about it Spiral, PLEASE!

Jens:
I do need to get out of the house occasionally ( not just to the doctors office! )
Again you have helped me in my never ending quest for knowledge.
I have acquired the name of my dagger, how the little balls were placed in the hilt, and what they were for, what the handle material is, also where it was probably made. Not bad, not bad at all.
Only thing still unknown to me is what was the "smiley" for?

I think I/we have "beat" this dagger to death with all the information from all the good folks, posting, on this forum. It is always amazing, to me, the collective knowledge/power that is shown by the forum folks. It has been a great "ride" for me and I thank you one and all for it.
Gene.

[spiral]

Originally Posted by Mare Rosu

Rand;
Thank you, as well, for the information about the material on my dagger handle, your "leaning" was right on. Do you think we could get Spiral to start a thread on his ivory knowledge, as you suggested? He said he is just learning about ivory, fine, I will take anything he offers. How about it Spiral, PLEASE!

.

Glad it was of some use Gene!

I think the total of my ivory knowledge is just about exhausted though., as I said I am just a mere student, 6 years ago I couldnt tell bone from Ivory. so I set out to learn a little more than the often reapeted antique dealers old wives tales I kept hearing, that are sometimes so misleading. So I both read & also more importantly spoke to instrument makers who buy & use the various types every working day of there lives.

But thankyou for asking.I am flattered.

But sure after a little more research on my part perhaps I can add more of substance at a later date.

Spiral

[Battara]

There is one other note for the coloring of ivory. As Spiral says it depends on environment and one environmental factor is the amount of exposure to sulfur.

Sulfur is mostly what colors ivories. For example elephant ivories in the presence of sulfur will turn yellow to orange to brown. IT is always in the air, but heat will accelerate the chemical reaction as the ivories "breath" in the sulfur already in the air.

By the way, Jens I always love your pictures - and am insanely jealous.

[Tim Simmons]

This is well handled white African ivory. Mangbetu/Zande - South Soudan, North East Congo.

[Mare Rosu]

Originally Posted by Battara

There is one other note for the coloring of ivory. As Spiral says it depends on environment and one environmental factor is the amount of exposure to sulfur.

Sulfur is mostly what colors ivories. For example elephant ivories in the presence of sulfur will turn yellow to orange to brown. IT is always in the air, but heat will accelerate the chemical reaction as the ivories "breath" in the sulfur already in the air.

By the way, Jens I always love your pictures - and am insanely jealous.

Battara; Great information about Sulfur changing ivory yellow.
I know for a fact, unfortunately, that rubber bands have a lot of sulfur in them, and I assume all rubber products also has sulfur in them. The rubber bands were stored in a box with some of my old Silver coins and the coins turn black
Question, Battara, on this dagger as well as others daggers/knives that I have with ivory handles I use Renaissance Wax on them, will that protect them from the effects of ambient sulfur?
Gene