Between Solo and Yogya

[Alam Shah]

Originally Posted by ganjawulung

Dear BluErf,
And sometimes, the keris sheath is more "expensive" than the keris... In Jogjakarta, the keris sheath made of "timoho" wood with "pelet ngingrim" (ngingrim motive, it is difficult to say this motive in words) is as valuable as a keris itself...

Ganjawulung

I agree as well. I have a piece in my collection, which sheath is more expensive than the blade itself... I believe some of us have ensemble that are like that. But the end result, is very satisfying... I sure.

As for the timoho wood you described, it should look pretty impressive... if you don't mind, can we have a look, please?

[ganjawulung]

Originally Posted by Alam Shah

As for the timoho wood you described, it should look pretty impressive... if you don't mind, can we have a look, please?

Dear Shahrial,
I've posted the keris warangka (sheath) with "ngingrim" motive in its timoho wood, on this same thread (#22, on 14th of July 2007). The same valuable motive of timoho is "sembur" (like tiger's fur dot). I know, Marco last week "desperately" sought this kind of "sembur" motive in Jogjakarta. (Now he is still in Bali....)

Ganjawulung

[Alam Shah]

Originally Posted by ganjawulung

Dear Shahrial,
I've posted the keris warangka (sheath) with "ngingrim" motive in its timoho wood, on this same thread (#22, on 14th of July 2007). The same valuable motive of timoho is "sembur" (like tiger's fur dot). I know, Marco last week "desperately" sought this kind of "sembur" motive in Jogjakarta. (Now he is still in Bali....)

Ganjawulung

Excellent! Thanks for sharing.

[Marcokeris]

Originally Posted by ganjawulung

Dear Shahrial,
I've posted the keris warangka (sheath) with "ngingrim" motive in its timoho wood, on this same thread (#22, on 14th of July 2007). The same valuable motive of timoho is "sembur" (like tiger's fur dot). I know, Marco last week "desperately" sought this kind of "sembur" motive in Jogjakarta. (Now he is still in Bali....)

Ganjawulung

Yes, very hard to find a timoho sembur .... mybe next time in Yogya i will be more lucky

[A. G. Maisey]

Pak Ganja, I fear that you may have been just slightly misled; I'm afraid your court informant was a little deficient in his knowledge.

The photo of the implement and signage from the karaton musium is in itself misleading. If you are able to investigate this matter, you will find that the cis of which you show a photo was previously displayed along with some taji. It would seem that the taji have been removed, leaving only the cis , however, the sign has not been altered.

Your photo shows an excellent example of a cis.The cis is not a weapon, it is an angkus, used to control an elephant.

The taji that used to be displayed were the ones used on animals when they were matched against one another, or against macan tutul. They were used mainly on goats in these matches, and the taji were mounted on a frame that strapped to the goat's head. You can still see examples of these taji in the Musium Radyapustaka, on Slamet Riyadi, just near Sriwedari. There's probably some cis there too.

As you have indicated the word "taji" is associated with fighting cocks, however, its usual usage is not for the cock's natural spur, rather, it is used to refer to the steel spur that is bound to the cock's foot when they fight.These spurs are straight, or sometimes waved like a keris blade,but they are not curved, and most definitely not curved to the extent of the hook-like blade of a cis.

[ganjawulung]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Pak Ganja, I fear that you may have been just slightly misled; I'm afraid your court informant was a little deficient in his knowledge.

The photo of the implement and signage from the karaton musium is in itself misleading. If you are able to investigate this matter, you will find that the cis of which you show a photo was previously displayed along with some taji. It would seem that the taji have been removed, leaving only the cis , however, the sign has not been altered.

Dear Alan,
What I saw in the Karaton museum was, a solely tombak in a single cupboard, closed with fixed glass. And just in the foot of the tombak, was a single name-tag for a single object in the solely cupboard.

If according to you, this "court informant" was a little deficient in "his" knowledge, then.. It is beyond my capability and capasity to say that the info was not right...

Ganjawulung

[A. G. Maisey]

Be this as it may Pak Ganja, but I am talking observed fact here.

Going back some years cis and taji were on exhibit in the karaton musium. I really do not care what the sign says that you photographed:- that sign is wrong, if it was referring to a single object, that object is a cis.

If you recieved an explanation from a guide, or attendant, or from anybody else, for that matter, the person who provided the explanation was wrong.

I am not seeking agreement from you, nor am I seeking concensus.

I attempted to correct the false information as gently as I could. I am now saying very plainly that the information that you were provided with was wrong.

To check the correctness of what I am saying, one does not need to have extreme depth of knowledge in this field. All that is required is to go to a good Javanese dictionary and one will find it spelled out.

Pak Ganja, you are Javanese, I am not. However, one does not need to be Javanese to know that it is a cultural trait of the Javanese people that when a question is asked, an answer will often be given without regard for the correctness of that answer, simply to try to ensure that the person who asked the question will not be disappointed by not receiving an answer.

You tried your best to obtain a correct answer, but the person whom you asked provided you with incorrect information.

[David]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

The cis is not a weapon, it is an angkus, used to control an elephant.

I don 't mean to speak for Alan here, but it would seem that he already answered this question in a previous post.

[A. G. Maisey]

No Pak Ganja, I beg you to please forgive me.

Apparently my use of language has been insufficiently clear. I dealt with this matter previously, but apparently I dealt with it in an inadequate fashion.

I will try again.

A cis is an ankus.

An ankus is a tool used to guide and control an elephant; such a tool is probably correctly named as a goad.

An ankus is not a weapon.

A harpoon is a tool used to spear whales, crocodiles and big fish. Strictly speaking this is also not a weapon.

A weapon is an implement which is used for fighting.

Here I quote my previous post of 17th July:- I feel that what has happened with this group of items that we know as "cis" in Solo, is this:- some of them are correctly named as "cis", and these are the ones that look, and probably functioned as, an angkus; the others which bear a resemblance to a correctly named cis, are in fact not cis at all, but various types of harpoon used to harpoon crocodiles, or sharks and other large fish.

Again I beg your forgiveness for being so imprecise and inadequate in the use of my own native language that I was unable to present information in a clear manner, in addition I feel that I must also ask your indulgence for causing you to waste so much of your valuable time on such an inconsequential matter.

[ganjawulung]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Again I beg your forgiveness for being so imprecise and inadequate in the use of my own native language that I was unable to present information in a clear manner, in addition I feel that I must also ask your indulgence for causing you to waste so much of your valuable time on such an inconsequential matter.

Thank you Alan,
Your explanation gives me clear information about the meaning of the word "angkus". (I didn't find this word in my English dictionary). That's why I ask you explanation.

I found this example in museum, not by intention. I was just seeing the collections of the museum in Solo last week, and coincidentally saw this "elephant goad".

Thanks a lot, Alan
Ganjawulung