Dayak parang

David · 18th July 2007, 09:01 PM

Thanks for that info Arjan. I see the same mirrorred "S" motif on thios example. Great research!

Dajak · 19th July 2007, 03:01 PM

Mandau from kutai area have different Handle s and the blade off this one is not small but wide
There are also kutai mandau with inlay .

Ben

David · 19th July 2007, 03:24 PM

Thanks for addition info about Kutai mandau, but i don't think Arjan has said he thought mine was from there.
I wish there were some different angles on the photos of your example Arjan, but i can now see on the top the same style of opened mouth creature that is on mine so now that is 2 motifs in common between these hilts. There definitely seem to be from the same area to me. I wonder if the museum you found it in has any more information of were it was collected?

Dajak · 19th July 2007, 04:17 PM

He is talking about influence and I don t see the influence

Ben

asomotif · 19th July 2007, 04:33 PM

The Hilt of Davids mandau clearly has similarities with the exmaple that Arjan is showing in this thread
Now compare the example from Arjan with my mandau that clearly has a Koetei handle.

Simple short blade, broadening scabbard , rattan stick on the scabbard.

I can see the transition / influence .

David · 19th July 2007, 04:58 PM

I think Arjan is talking more about influence on the blade and sheath style than on the hilts. I do see similarities between his and Asomotif's examples.
Thank you all for this continuing research. What certainly seems to have been established is that the motif styles of my hilt are not some carvers freeminded improv but seem to have some basis in traditional indigenous designs.

Mytribalworld · 20th July 2007, 05:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

I think Arjan is talking more about influence on the blade and sheath style than on the hilts. I do see similarities between his and Asomotif's examples.
Thank you all for this continuing research. What certainly seems to have been established is that the motif styles of my hilt are not some carvers freeminded improv but seem to have some basis in traditional indigenous designs.

Hi David,

Especially the sheath,I think Kutei blades had more their influence from the Kajan.The boatprow upbending scabbard-end however seems to have his influence in Kutei but later the more common shape of the Kajan scabbard became in use.

The mirrored S on the hilt is also found as chest tattoo by men of the Bukit tribe , the Bukit tribe live indeed around the area of Banjarmassin.
So I think its very good possible that this is a Bukit mandau.

Thanks for showing it David,it helped me further with the study!

Mytribalworld · 20th July 2007, 05:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Thanks for addition info about Kutai mandau, but i don't think Arjan has said he thought mine was from there.
I wish there were some different angles on the photos of your example Arjan, but i can now see on the top the same style of opened mouth creature that is on mine so now that is 2 motifs in common between these hilts. There definitely seem to be from the same area to me. I wonder if the museum you found it in has any more information of were it was collected?

Here some more pics.

David · 20th July 2007, 06:23 PM

Thanks again Arjan. I will consider this piece as probably from the Bukit tribe until more info comes my way?

One more stylistic motif in common with these two hilts would be that "joint" in the carving that looks somewhat like a nut & bolt viewed from the top. I have never seen this on mandau hilts before either. All very interesting stuff for me. Now, if we can only figure out what these different motifs actually represent.

Mytribalworld · 22nd July 2007, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Thanks again Arjan. I will consider this piece as probably from the Bukit tribe until more info comes my way?

One more stylistic motif in common with these two hilts would be that "joint" in the carving that looks somewhat like a nut & bolt viewed from the top. I have never seen this on mandau hilts before either. All very interesting stuff for me. Now, if we can only figure out what these different motifs actually represent.

I think indeed we can cassify this as " possible Bukit mandau"....
is it possible to show the "neck"?

David · 23rd July 2007, 01:45 AM

I owe you all better pics and promise i will get to it soon. I am a new home owner

and between the move and home repairs (spent 10 hrs. re-tiling the kitchen floor yesterday

) i just haven't had time to re-photograph this piece. Hopefully this week i can find the time.
By "neck" do you mean the base of the blade where it enters the hilt or the "neck" of the hilt itself?

19th July 2007, 04:33 PM	#5
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,235	The Hilt of Davids mandau clearly has similarities with the exmaple that Arjan is showing in this thread Now compare the example from Arjan with my mandau that clearly has a Koetei handle. Simple short blade, broadening scabbard , rattan stick on the scabbard. I can see the transition / influence . Attached Images

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18th July 2007, 09:01 PM	#1
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,230	Thanks for that info Arjan. I see the same mirrorred "S" motif on thios example. Great research!

19th July 2007, 03:01 PM	#2
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	Mandau from kutai area have different Handle s and the blade off this one is not small but wide There are also kutai mandau with inlay . Ben

19th July 2007, 03:24 PM	#3
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,230	Thanks for addition info about Kutai mandau, but i don't think Arjan has said he thought mine was from there. I wish there were some different angles on the photos of your example Arjan, but i can now see on the top the same style of opened mouth creature that is on mine so now that is 2 motifs in common between these hilts. There definitely seem to be from the same area to me. I wonder if the museum you found it in has any more information of were it was collected?

19th July 2007, 04:17 PM	#4
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	He is talking about influence and I don t see the influence Ben

19th July 2007, 04:58 PM	#6
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,230	I think Arjan is talking more about influence on the blade and sheath style than on the hilts. I do see similarities between his and Asomotif's examples. Thank you all for this continuing research. What certainly seems to have been established is that the motif styles of my hilt are not some carvers freeminded improv but seem to have some basis in traditional indigenous designs.

20th July 2007, 06:23 PM	#9
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,230	Thanks again Arjan. I will consider this piece as probably from the Bukit tribe until more info comes my way? One more stylistic motif in common with these two hilts would be that "joint" in the carving that looks somewhat like a nut & bolt viewed from the top. I have never seen this on mandau hilts before either. All very interesting stuff for me. Now, if we can only figure out what these different motifs actually represent.

23rd July 2007, 01:45 AM	#11
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,230	I owe you all better pics and promise i will get to it soon. I am a new home owner and between the move and home repairs (spent 10 hrs. re-tiling the kitchen floor yesterday ) i just haven't had time to re-photograph this piece. Hopefully this week i can find the time. By "neck" do you mean the base of the blade where it enters the hilt or the "neck" of the hilt itself?