Islamic dagger with gold inscription

Conogre · 7th March 2005, 02:09 PM

Perhaps a dumb question, but what does the "end" of the hilt look like?
From the first time I looked at this something about the blade shape, scabbard and "chappe"(?) end piece has been nagging at me.......I think it's a straight bladed variant of a yatagan, which would be entirely appropriate for the area.
Mike

Yannis · 7th March 2005, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conogre

Perhaps a dumb question, but what does the "end" of the hilt look like?
From the first time I looked at this something about the blade shape, scabbard and "chappe"(?) end piece has been nagging at me.......I think it's a straight bladed variant of a yatagan, which would be entirely appropriate for the area.
Mike

Mike
I have not seen it closely, but I am almost sure that it is not a split pommel if this you mean. I think hilt has this “bird head” end, that is also very common in the area. We dont call it yataghan.

Kamil · 8th March 2005, 12:51 AM

Hi,
I was off-line for a quite long time (and even now I can't lurk here as frequently as I'd like to do it). Nevermind. I agree with Raja Muda that the inscription seems Turkish, but I propose another reading of its initial part:

Akaldan (q=k in Turkish graphy) hersekwind awad (or: od) foche (where "ch" as in "cheese") Mustafa etc.

But, of course, the vowels can be only guessed.

Greetings

Raja Muda · 9th March 2005, 08:47 AM

Hi Erlikhan,

Putting in the vowels is part of the guesswork since the Arabic alphabet system is by and large made up of consonants. Each language that adopted the Arabic alphabet had their own way with spelling words, as well as additional consonants to pronounce sounds non-existent in Arabic.
My knowledge is limited to what I know of Arabic as well as old Malay, which uses a similar system. It's good that Kamil has provided an alternative reading so that we can cover all angles of the inscription.

regards

Raja Muda

Conogre · 11th March 2005, 08:42 PM

Yes, I WAS wondering if it had an ottoman style "eared hilt" although there's another similar knife with the "birds head" hilt(very well described, thank you) and not eared that I was told is called a "masume"(sp?) or something similar as this is the name of the Turkish town where they are primarily made, possibly even originated, and the style is highly favored.
I bought an old yatagan and a small version of the other style with a pink dyed ivory hilt about 5 years ago directly from a gentleman in Ismir, who related the history of the name to me.....that's not to say he wasn't pulling a western leg, of course.
Mike

erlikhan · 11th March 2005, 09:48 PM

hi Raja Muda.hmm.well, Kamil's readings worked greatly for me before, but this time his version didn't mean anything understandable to me . Yours sounds much familiar to Turkish or a Balkan language mixed with it and i was hopeful about the translation i made but if you've read it in Malay style and it needs to be different than Ottoman style, then not much I can guess with the existing clues in hand. If not Turkish, it gives a bit feeling like Albanian however.

9th March 2005, 08:47 AM	#4
Raja Muda Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia Posts: 100	Vowels Hi Erlikhan, Putting in the vowels is part of the guesswork since the Arabic alphabet system is by and large made up of consonants. Each language that adopted the Arabic alphabet had their own way with spelling words, as well as additional consonants to pronounce sounds non-existent in Arabic. My knowledge is limited to what I know of Arabic as well as old Malay, which uses a similar system. It's good that Kamil has provided an alternative reading so that we can cover all angles of the inscription. regards Raja Muda

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7th March 2005, 02:09 PM	#1
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	Perhaps a dumb question, but what does the "end" of the hilt look like? From the first time I looked at this something about the blade shape, scabbard and "chappe"(?) end piece has been nagging at me.......I think it's a straight bladed variant of a yatagan, which would be entirely appropriate for the area. Mike

8th March 2005, 12:51 AM	#3
Kamil Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Poland, Warsaw Posts: 33	Hi, I was off-line for a quite long time (and even now I can't lurk here as frequently as I'd like to do it). Nevermind. I agree with Raja Muda that the inscription seems Turkish, but I propose another reading of its initial part: Akaldan (q=k in Turkish graphy) hersekwind awad (or: od) foche (where "ch" as in "cheese") Mustafa etc. But, of course, the vowels can be only guessed. Greetings

11th March 2005, 08:42 PM	#5
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	Yes, I WAS wondering if it had an ottoman style "eared hilt" although there's another similar knife with the "birds head" hilt(very well described, thank you) and not eared that I was told is called a "masume"(sp?) or something similar as this is the name of the Turkish town where they are primarily made, possibly even originated, and the style is highly favored. I bought an old yatagan and a small version of the other style with a pink dyed ivory hilt about 5 years ago directly from a gentleman in Ismir, who related the history of the name to me.....that's not to say he wasn't pulling a western leg, of course. Mike

11th March 2005, 09:48 PM	#6
erlikhan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Istanbul Posts: 452	hi Raja Muda.hmm.well, Kamil's readings worked greatly for me before, but this time his version didn't mean anything understandable to me . Yours sounds much familiar to Turkish or a Balkan language mixed with it and i was hopeful about the translation i made but if you've read it in Malay style and it needs to be different than Ottoman style, then not much I can guess with the existing clues in hand. If not Turkish, it gives a bit feeling like Albanian however.