keris and spirit

[HanaChu69]

Good day everyone,

Pak Alan – I hope you don’t mind me asking. Can I know what you did to the 15 troublesome pieces of keris and tombak? Did you allocate a special place for them? Did you neutralize them? I sure hope that they bring you good luck and not trouble.

Penangsang – Believe in fate. No matter how invincible you are. You will surely die one day.

Best regards,
Hana

[A. G. Maisey]

Hana, I did absolutely nothing other than to accept what I was given, and proceed to look after these pieces as I would any others. Some required no work except cleaning and oiling. Others required varying amounts of work. All were put into good condition and simply added to a particular drawer where I keep all wesi aji that is given to me.

No offerings, no neutralisation, no sleeping with them under my pillow, no consultations with wise men.

Nothing except giving them the care and respect they deserved.

They may have been troublesome to some other people, they have been no trouble at all to me.

[Pusaka]

Let’s say it is possible to imbue a blade with an energy field, call it spirit if you like but what type of material would best suit this purpose?

As an analogy I would like to consider the basic bar magnet. There are many types of magnets, natural loadstone, common steel magnetized (the first manufactured magnets), nickel steel and super strong rare earth magnets. The nature of the magnetic field in all of these substances is the same however some materials when energized (magnetized) will retain that magnetism for a longer period of time.
We conclude that it is possible to magnetize several materials but some make better magnets then others.

In terms of magnets what type of material makes the strongest magnet?
As stated previously rare earth magnets are the strongest type of magnets available. One variety of magnet which is extremely strong contains three main ingredients, nickel, ferrite and a rare earth element. The smallest quantity of rare earth element when added to a nickel iron compound will boost its magnetic properties.

Meteorites often contain iron, nickel and rare earth elements. A kris forged from meteorite should be more magnetic then a steel blade.
I was once told that a keris made from meteorite was better able to hold a spirit, I read earlier in this thread that a keris made from meteorite was able to hold a spirit because it is yin.
I will however say that a keris made from meteorite is better because it contains rare earth elements which makes it a suitable object to be energized and retain that original energy for a longer period of time.

All magnets become weak over time if they are not remagnetized, all keris will likewise become weak if their energy if not maintained in a correct manner.

It is not mystical, its Scientific

[David]

Pusaka, nice to hear from you again.
My opinion is this - spirit is not a piece of iron and i don't think magnetic attraction will make any difference...unless you believe it wll. Maybe i do.
When enbuing an object with spirit, the best material to use is the one the best makes some sort of logical sense in the hardwiring of your brain. Spiritual and magickal practices are very personal ones and while we are all influenced by larger cultural concerns what we each believe can sometimes be very specific (and somewhat different from our fellows). Personally i like the concept of the magnet as a metaphor for my mind and i always regularly reinforce the magnetic fields of all my keris. But i don't think it is "science" per se. I would never suggest that anyone else should do this, it is just part of my personal practice and something which works well with the software already input into my mind. But someone else may have an old hatpin from their favorite weird great aunt that has deep magickal significance to them that they might feel is the perfect material to embue and hold spirit. Maybe they want to melt it down and put it in their keris.

[pakana]

Hello to all of you,

I would like to express my opinion in the "keris-spirit" matter. We should't forget the fact that an empu in the past when he got the order of making a keris,had to follow some "rules" in order to make a strong keris. That means fasting, pay attention to certain rituals, praying to God. It wasn't just the strong intention of the maker only. He had to make offerings also to the spirit, as well as "giving" a name to the keris, which he revealed only to the owner, because anyone who had access to that name, could use the power of the keris for himself.

The usage of metal was very important, because of the yin element of it. Together with the usage of meteor material,was literaly the "marriage" of sky(meteor) and the earth(iron). What I mean is that the making of a keris was a very tiring and demanding procedure, far more complicated than making a western sword or a katana. Not to mention also the artistic value of the keris.
I hope that this wonderful thread will continue, providing us beginers with useful information.

[Kiai Carita]

Originally Posted by David

....Personally i like the concept of the magnet as a metaphor for my mind and i always regularly reinforce the magnetic fields of all my keris. But i don't think it is "science" per se. I would never suggest that anyone else should do this, it is just part of my personal practice and something which works well with the software already input into my mind. But someone else may have an old hatpin from their favorite weird great aunt that has deep magickal significance to them that they might feel is the perfect material to embue and hold spirit. Maybe they want to melt it down and put it in their keris.

Salam keris everyone,

I am not very clever and often put both my feet in my mouth but I don't think that magnets (besi berani) have anything to do with keris spirits, unless you trust the wierd elaborations on the keris written by William Sanders available on www.cimande.com.

I have never heard magnets mentioned in Jawanese keris discussions. I have also never heard any Jawanese explain keris in the terms of Yin-Yang. The closest to Yin-Yang in Jawanese keris speak would be 'Ibu Bumi Bapa Angkasa' - mother earth father sky- which do appear in the mantras of mPu according to the late Bp. Bambang Harsrinuksma, but Yin Yang in the Chinese minde encompass more than the Ibu Bumi Bapa Angkasa do for the Jawanese .

In my opinion the spiritual stength of keris comes from:

1) The intention of the mPu and the metals he uses.
2) The mind of the owner.
3) The collective minds of the community where the keris resides, which can be very much influenced by the history of the keris.

And while I am here on my expensive but slow dial-up in the styx, special for Raden Usman in Africa (ngapain lu disane Raden? - what are you doing there Raden in Betawi dialect) .... you must all know the macapat called dandanggula -pot of sweetness? - (I translate gula to sweetness because of the negative feelings the modern world has now for sugar while in Jawa gula is meant to be lovely). Sing this in the night, with feeling. Appologies to forumites who hate poetry. I only have two keris and one tombak with no camera, and also my keris are pusaka I feel reluctant to photograph, please forgive me for never being able to producew photos. The other keris I have for a while always come from our own Mans(ur) Hidayat in Surabaya which I give away as gifts -BTW I think he is an honest and knowledgeable keris seller comparable to our sesepuh Pak Alan Maisey (Mr G'day Mate, nuwun sewu - thousand pardons)...

Macapat Dandanggula

Ana kidung rumeksa ing wengi
Teguh hayu luput hing lelara
Luput hing bilahi kabeh
Jim setan dhatan doyan
Paneluhan tan hana wani
Miwah panggawe ala
Gunane wong luput
Geni atemahan tirta
Maling adoh tan wani perak mring mami!
Guna tuju pan sirna!

Read four, pot of sweetness....

There is a song
Vibrating through the night
Strong and fair protecting from disease
Protecting from all misfortune
Evil spirits hate the taste
Black magic doesn't even dare
And those who would do ill
The arts of the lost ones
Fire killed by cold water
Pirates from far don't you dare cross my path tonight
All your knowledge'll come to nought!

Back to the subject, please tell me where magnets and yin-yang are important in Jawanese kerisology (not Caliofornian kerisology)

Warm salaams,
Bram.

[Pusaka]

Hello David, I know I am a bit of a wonderer but I do like to visit occasionally

Kiai,

I need to explain myself clearer because I think my analogy has confused everyone
The energy that flows through a keris blade is not common magnetism and neither is it produced by magnets in any way. I don’t agree with Mr. Sanders if he says it is, actually I don’t agree much with anything Mr. Sanders says but that’s just me. I used the analogy of a bar magnet simply to say that the material a keris is made from can affect its ability to carry a current/energy just in the same manner the material from which a bar magnet is composed of can produce a strong magnet or a weak magnet. A keris blade is not made with magnets and neither are they traditionally used to energies the keris. I have noticed however that some keris are slightly magnetic, put the blade near a magnetic compass. Today when we use the term magnetism it means one thing however in the passed the Victorians acknowledged different types of magnetism for example animal magnetism (a concept similar to the Indian concept of Prana and the Chineese concept of Qi/Chi.


Regards

D

[pakana]

Greetings everyone,

I noticed that some of the forumites felt a little strange with the usage of the chinese word Yin.My purpose was to make the distinction about the spiritual side of the keris,by using the word Yin, which refers to the spirit world. We, us humans, we are characterised as Yang creatures(because we have flesh and bones), while the spirits that don't have actual existance, are refered as Yin creatures. So, a keris "resident" is a Yin creature.I used chinese terms,because they are more familiar to the western world.Also I don't know javanese

regards

[David]

Originally Posted by Pusaka

Hello David, I know I am a bit of a wonderer but I do like to visit occasionally

I have always considered myself a bit of a wonderer as well, though i assume that what you meant to say is that you are a wanderer. Anyway, glad you wandered by.
Bram, i think i am pretty much on the same page as you and i certainly never meant to imply that magnetism has any traditional place in the understanding of keris spirits. There are many elements of my personal practice which have nothing to do with traditional Indonesian practices. Sorry if i confused you.
Pakana, i am not so sure that i would regard a chunk of iron ore meteorite "yin" simply because it falls from the sky. Place of origin is not always a very good factor in this determination. Man (yang) is, afterall, born of woman (yin). Infact, i would be much more inclined to consider meteorite as "yang". It is extremely dense stuff and hits the earth with great force and velocity. Very yang elements in my book.
I would also be very hesitant to say that the making of a keris is a "far more complicated" procedure than the making of a katana. If this had been posted on the general forum you would probably be hear quite a bit more about that by now.