keris and spirit

Kiai Carita · 10th July 2007, 04:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raden Usman Djogja

Kiai Carita,

It is interesting. In one side, if we sell a keris that we believe it has bad influence to the owner, we will feel guilty to its buyer. Generally, between seller and buyer of keris know well each other. On the other hand, if we follow tradition to larung (throw away) it, as you said, it should be considered as destroying arecheological artefacts and littering.

What do you suggest, Kiai?

Warm salam,

Usman

Mas Usman, sorry for not yet responding to your PM, but yes, I have some other translations of macapat (read four) songs. However these are still changing, it is not easy to get the English to be able to feel close to the Jawanese.

As to selling a keris that you feel is bad without feeling bad, this can be achieved by letting the buyer know. If you can't find a buyer, you should always be able to find someone who would be happy to take it, especially in Jawa there are many people who pride themselves in being able to neutralize bad spiritual forces. In the west, a small museum might be interested. Larung in the sea is a very bad option, makes me think of Anton Lucas' "The Dog is Dead, Throw it in the River" piece about how we (Indonesians) treat our rivers. What if some child is playing on the beach and falls on the larunged keris?

The ketoprak story I remember goes: Arya Penangsang was killed by his keris, because Gagak Rimang, his stallion was in heat. Gagak Rimang reared unexpectedly giving Sutawijaya an oportunity to badly gash Penangsang's stomach till his intestines fell out. Penangsang hanged them back round his keris and continued fighting till he had Sutawijaya pinned, and forgeting that his intestines were hanging around his keris, drew his keris to stab Sutawijaya but instead severed his own intestines and died. Setan Kober killed him, but so did Sutawijaya's tombak. Was not this tombak Kiai Plered? Later I believe that Kiai Plered was used successfully again in battle, to kill a Dutch commander, making it seem that Pusaka tosan aji were also still used in battle after they had been passed down through the generations.

Nowadays, Penangsang is a hero in Blora and northen parts of Jawa, but he is a antagonist in Mataram II centres.

Mas Usman, special for you while I am here, I am sure you know this macapat song about young Jaka Tingkir, one generation back from the death of Arya Penangsang.

Sigra milir
Sang gethek sinangga bajul
Kawandasa kang njagani
Ing ngarso miwah ing pungkur
Tanepi ing kanan kering
Sang gethek lampahnya alon.

Floating so slow
My raft is pushed by crocodiles
Forty beasts surrounding me
In the front and in the rear
On my right and on my left
My raft is floating oh so slow.

warm salaams,
Bram

PenangsangII · 10th July 2007, 05:31 AM

Salam,

Kiai Carita, I believe that song is a narration of Jaka Tingkir's journey to Demak along with his 2 companions / lieutenants to win back Sultan Trenggono's trust after he was banished from the palace for seducing the sultan's princess.

Eventually, Mas Karebet managed to kill a bull that had run amuk near sultan's platform. The sultan finally agreed to marry off his daughter to Mas Karebet.

Well, the confusing part is, why would the sultan agree to marry off his daughter to a commoner like Jaka Tingkir? Wouldnt it be Arya Penangsang, who hailed from a noble family, more qualified?

In the folk lores, according to my late grandfather, Arya Penangsang's kanuragan level was a lot higher compared to the rest of the noblemen, hence nobody even dared to fight him face to face, even after it was found out that he was the man behind the murder of Sultan Trenggono.

Kiai Carita · 10th July 2007, 06:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PenangsangII

Salam,

Kiai Carita, I believe that song is a narration of Jaka Tingkir's journey to Demak along with his 2 companions / lieutenants to win back Sultan Trenggono's trust after he was banished from the palace for seducing the sultan's princess.

Eventually, Mas Karebet managed to kill a bull that had run amuk near sultan's platform. The sultan finally agreed to marry off his daughter to Mas Karebet.

Well, the confusing part is, why would the sultan agree to marry off his daughter to a commoner like Jaka Tingkir? Wouldnt it be Arya Penangsang, who hailed from a noble family, more qualified?

In the folk lores, according to my late grandfather, Arya Penangsang's kanuragan level was a lot higher compared to the rest of the noblemen, hence nobody even dared to fight him face to face, even after it was found out that he was the man behind the murder of Sultan Trenggono.

The Sultan was in fear that Arya Penangsang was plotting to become King of Jawa. Arya Penangsang was killed through the strategy of making his horse uncontrolable, but even when badly wounded he still was too strong a fighter. He killed himself by accident while he was winning the fight.

Salam hangat,
Bram

Raden Usman Djogja · 10th July 2007, 08:21 AM

Kia Carita, Penangsang II and kerislovers,

Back to the spirit and the folk lores, what was the role of Kiai Setan Kober? How was the spirit of Kiai Setan Kober? Why was Kiai Setan Kober metioned specially in the folk lores?

Kerislovers, do you have a keris which its dhapur/shape is Setan Kober. May you share its pictures, please?

According to De Graff [?] book: The Fall of Islamic Mataram, there was a rebellion lead by a nobleman during Amangkurat reign. In one day battle, the nobleman who led rebellion run amok. A lot of Mataram soldiers were killed. The nobleman finally exhausted and was killed accidently by his own keris. It was believed that his keris pusaka was "dhapur" (shape) Setan Kober.

warm salam,

Usmen
ps: Thank you, Kiai Carita, for sending mocopat (read four) song. I will sing that song here...in africa

PenangsangII · 10th July 2007, 12:15 PM

Dear Pak Raden & Kerislovers,

I cannot recollect exactly what my late grandfather told me about 20 years ago, but if I am not mistaken, Kiai Setan Kober had even number of loks, most probably 12 loks. But I never saw or heard dapur Setan Kober before. Perhaps other forumites have more information to offer?

Also, there is a very powerful "Ilmu Pengasih" attributed to Setan Kober

.

David · 10th July 2007, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PenangsangII

Also, there is a very powerful "Ilmu Pengasih" attributed to Setan Kober

.

How best would you translate "Ilmu Pengasih"?

HanaChu69 · 10th July 2007, 05:26 PM

Greetings everyone,

It’s a joy being able to network and widen circle of keris collectors friends from around the globe. In addition, you will be able to gain valuable insights on both Malaysian and Indonesian kerises.

Usman – In your earlier posting, there was an indication that a spear spirit has influence not only on the beholder but also on the surrounding community. Can you elaborate in what way exactly?

Sepokal – Wa’alaikumsalam, thank you on your views from a Malay perspective. It’s not easy to be chosen as a successor of “pusaka” with terms and conditions apply. It involves heavy responsibility abiding and observing them. Do take good care of it, my friend.

Penangsang – I have to disagree with you on being at a disadvantage for having mixed parentage. It can be confusing but vice versa for me. In fact I’m blessed being able to understand two different Indonesian dialects and their culture (reading in progress). The remedy is to make positive adjustment and all will turn out fine.

Bram & Ganjawulung – Thank you for the clarification on “ruwat” and “sukerto”. I strongly discourage “larunging” a keris and rather find other alternative solution instead. I’m a go for green person as in “Save the Earth” and avoid pollution. On the other hand, I would like to know how to go about neutralizing them. Is there any other thread that link to this topic?

Pak Alan – Thanks for the referencing. I will check it out and revert on anything interesting.

David – “ilmu pengasih” is the art of attracting men/women (polite term used). I would very much love to see the keris especially with the name of spirit that has “kiai” and “setan” in them.

Best regards,
Hana

P.S - Pardon me for the many questions asked. I believe in the proverbs “He who asks is a fool for five minutes, but he who does not ask remains a fool forever”.

ganjawulung · 11th July 2007, 03:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PenangsangII

I cannot recollect exactly what my late grandfather told me about 20 years ago, but if I am not mistaken, Kiai Setan Kober had even number of loks, most probably 12 loks. But I never saw or heard dapur Setan Kober before. Perhaps other forumites have more information to offer?

Also, there is a very powerful "Ilmu Pengasih" attributed to Setan Kober

.

Dear Penangsang,
This is about the name of "setan kober". According to an interpretation (my friend, a lecturer in University of Indonesia), actually the name of Ario Penangsang's keris was misinterpreted. Commonly commited error in the past, people mentioned the Ario's keris as "setan kober". So what is in this name? Literally no reasonable meaning of it. "Setan" means satan, or devil. And "Kober" means "to have sufficient" time.

According to my friend's interpretation (he is still studying it), actually not "setan kober", but "sih tan ka uber" or in Indonesian language "kasih tak sampai" (unmaterialized love). Relating to the "unmaterialized love" of Ario Penangsang and the daughter of Sultan Tranggono. The passion of Ario at that time...

Ganjawulung

PenangsangII · 11th July 2007, 05:09 AM

Pak Ganja and other forumites,

The problem with oral tradition is that sometimes the original story and characters or even meaning are lost thru generations. Your lecturer friend indeed made sense, because until now I still dont understand the meaning of Setan Kober.

But there is another probable reason why Arya Penangsang had named his keris Setan Kober. It was said that he went to an empu to commission a powerful keris in anticipation of battle against the famous pusaka belonging to Jaka Tingkir - Kiai Plered. The keris was forged by the empu with the calling of all spirits of Tanah Jawa to reside in it thus the name Setan Kober.

10th July 2007, 05:31 AM	#2
PenangsangII Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 401	Jaka Tingkir vs Arya Penangsang Salam, Kiai Carita, I believe that song is a narration of Jaka Tingkir's journey to Demak along with his 2 companions / lieutenants to win back Sultan Trenggono's trust after he was banished from the palace for seducing the sultan's princess. Eventually, Mas Karebet managed to kill a bull that had run amuk near sultan's platform. The sultan finally agreed to marry off his daughter to Mas Karebet. Well, the confusing part is, why would the sultan agree to marry off his daughter to a commoner like Jaka Tingkir? Wouldnt it be Arya Penangsang, who hailed from a noble family, more qualified? In the folk lores, according to my late grandfather, Arya Penangsang's kanuragan level was a lot higher compared to the rest of the noblemen, hence nobody even dared to fight him face to face, even after it was found out that he was the man behind the murder of Sultan Trenggono.

10th July 2007, 12:15 PM	#5
PenangsangII Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 401	Kiai Setan Kober Dear Pak Raden & Kerislovers, I cannot recollect exactly what my late grandfather told me about 20 years ago, but if I am not mistaken, Kiai Setan Kober had even number of loks, most probably 12 loks. But I never saw or heard dapur Setan Kober before. Perhaps other forumites have more information to offer? Also, there is a very powerful "Ilmu Pengasih" attributed to Setan Kober .

10th July 2007, 05:26 PM	#7
HanaChu69 Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Singapore Posts: 29	Cool!! Greetings everyone, It’s a joy being able to network and widen circle of keris collectors friends from around the globe. In addition, you will be able to gain valuable insights on both Malaysian and Indonesian kerises. Usman – In your earlier posting, there was an indication that a spear spirit has influence not only on the beholder but also on the surrounding community. Can you elaborate in what way exactly? Sepokal – Wa’alaikumsalam, thank you on your views from a Malay perspective. It’s not easy to be chosen as a successor of “pusaka” with terms and conditions apply. It involves heavy responsibility abiding and observing them. Do take good care of it, my friend. Penangsang – I have to disagree with you on being at a disadvantage for having mixed parentage. It can be confusing but vice versa for me. In fact I’m blessed being able to understand two different Indonesian dialects and their culture (reading in progress). The remedy is to make positive adjustment and all will turn out fine. Bram & Ganjawulung – Thank you for the clarification on “ruwat” and “sukerto”. I strongly discourage “larunging” a keris and rather find other alternative solution instead. I’m a go for green person as in “Save the Earth” and avoid pollution. On the other hand, I would like to know how to go about neutralizing them. Is there any other thread that link to this topic? Pak Alan – Thanks for the referencing. I will check it out and revert on anything interesting. David – “ilmu pengasih” is the art of attracting men/women (polite term used). I would very much love to see the keris especially with the name of spirit that has “kiai” and “setan” in them. Best regards, Hana P.S - Pardon me for the many questions asked. I believe in the proverbs “He who asks is a fool for five minutes, but he who does not ask remains a fool forever”.

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10th July 2007, 08:21 AM	#4
Raden Usman Djogja Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 199	Kia Carita, Penangsang II and kerislovers, Back to the spirit and the folk lores, what was the role of Kiai Setan Kober? How was the spirit of Kiai Setan Kober? Why was Kiai Setan Kober metioned specially in the folk lores? Kerislovers, do you have a keris which its dhapur/shape is Setan Kober. May you share its pictures, please? According to De Graff [?] book: The Fall of Islamic Mataram, there was a rebellion lead by a nobleman during Amangkurat reign. In one day battle, the nobleman who led rebellion run amok. A lot of Mataram soldiers were killed. The nobleman finally exhausted and was killed accidently by his own keris. It was believed that his keris pusaka was "dhapur" (shape) Setan Kober. warm salam, Usmen ps: Thank you, Kiai Carita, for sending mocopat (read four) song. I will sing that song here...in africa

11th July 2007, 05:09 AM	#9
PenangsangII Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 401	Pak Ganja and other forumites, The problem with oral tradition is that sometimes the original story and characters or even meaning are lost thru generations. Your lecturer friend indeed made sense, because until now I still dont understand the meaning of Setan Kober. But there is another probable reason why Arya Penangsang had named his keris Setan Kober. It was said that he went to an empu to commission a powerful keris in anticipation of battle against the famous pusaka belonging to Jaka Tingkir - Kiai Plered. The keris was forged by the empu with the calling of all spirits of Tanah Jawa to reside in it thus the name Setan Kober.