Flyssa - I finally got one!!

[Jim McDougall]

Hi Emanuel,
Thank you for posting this, and congratulations on finally obtaining an excellent example of these intriguing swords! Thank you also for always including interesting data, especially the comments on the work by Camille Lacoste-Desjardins. I have always wished I had access to this apparantly detailed work on the flyssa, the only in depth study I am aware of, but unfortunately I do not speak or read French.

Krockew, Tim and Lew thank you for also sharing your great examples as well !

When threads develop like this with such great input, it is especially rewarding to see the discussion including such comprehensive examples, and serious observations that better help us understand the weapons being studied.

As we have noted over the years, it does seem the 'flyssa' is a relative latecomer as a distinct form, and its development has been suggested to have come from the early Meditteranean sword forms such as machaira.This seems unlikely as there is no evidence of progressive development and the length of time with the forms unlinked is too long. It seems more plausible in my opinion that it came loosely from the deep bellied and virtually straight Ottoman yataghan of 16th c. ("The Age of Suleyman the Magnificent", 1990, p.64 #50), combined with the needle point form of blades on Circassian/Tatar sabres of c.16th-17th centuries. This hybridization would seem to have been an atavistic development that arose initially in the Grand Kabylie regions of Algeria, and generally held to have been armourers of the Ifflyssen tribe (hence the term 'flyssa').

The earliest known example (at least by narrative using the term) is said to have been presented to a Spanish envoy in 1827. The earliest known provenanced example I have found is one in the Foreign Legion museum in France, captured in combat in 1857. It is of the same form, motif and decoration seen in the well known examples generally seen.

That is primarily what is categorically known on the history of the flyssa from my own perspective, and it would be great to know of any earlier examples known, as well as any narrative data that might be included in material from the French military. It seems that more might be included on the actual use of these.

I agree that the smaller curved and almost dagger type examples are likely modern. I have seen the term 'wedding flyssa' used...is there any material authenticating the wearing of these weapons in wedding ceremonies?

We know that the geometric designs distinctly seen on the flyssa are primarily based on folk religious superstition, i.e. the triangular 'fibula' to protect from the evil eye. It is unclear what creature is represented in the stylized zoomorphic figure.......ideas??

On many flyssas there is a strange sort of hourglass figure usually toward to root of the blade....what does this represent?

Thanks very much everybody!

All best regards,
Jim

[Emanuel]

Hi Jim,
Desjardins offers some insight into the small flyssa variety. Refering to the decadence of the art of the flyssa, she states that production of smaller copies of flyssas began around 1850 to satisfy the Travelers' demand. The were produced by the Beni-Fraoucen and the Beni-Yenni tribes and more recently (late-1950s) at Bou-Saada. Sometimes they had little formal iron guards (p. 135).
I would guess that the wedding nimcha and Kronckew's curved flyssa are examples of this. So none of the sword/short-sword sized flyssas are any younger than the 1850s...

Cheers,
Emanuel

[Jim McDougall]

Emanuel,
One of the things that has remained puzzling to me on the flyssa (that is one of the things )is the strange three dimensional hourglass shape seen in the motif on the blades of some flyssas. I wish I had an illustration, possibly anyone out there with flyssas might have one with this figure.

Years ago there were the occasional discussions on the flyssa and this topic came up, and nothing conclusive was ever revealed. The only suggestion that seemed to make sense was that this somehow represented a drum. The only drum I could come up with that had this unusual shape was the so called 'talking drum' form used by West African tribes. While these tribes included the Hausa, who of course also traversed the Sahara and were closely associated with the Tuareg, it seems odd at how this distinct geometric 'drum' shape would come up on a Kabyle weapon.

It is true that the Tuareg tribal units included a political unit controlled by a 'drum chief' whose authority was symbolized by a drum, and the Tuareg were, as the Kabyle, Berber, however would this symbolism have carried into Kabyle motif?

Can anyone come up with a photo of a flyssa with one of these in the blade motif, and any ideas on the plausibility of the drum being what is represented in the motif?

All the best,
Jim

[Jim McDougall]

I wanted to bump this up because I would really like to see some serious discussion on these intriguing swords.
There absolutely has to be more flyssas out there, and I am hoping that somebody will be able to share the variations of inscribed markings on the blades (aside from the decorative geometric motif along the back .

Can anybody help?

[Jim McDougall]

I wanted to thank Manolo, Kronckew, Lew and Tim for posting your examples of flyssa, which is very much appreciated. There has really been very little research done on these, with the exception of the references kindly noted. Sadly there appears to be little interest in them as evidenced in the cursory mention in most sources in English, and most attention to them seems to be confined to collecting examples.

I think there is a great deal to be revealed in further study of these unique swords and what better place to discuss them than here I am hoping that others out there who may own examples and have interest in them might come forward so we can learn more about them.

Cmon guys!!!

All the best,
Jim

[TVV]

OK, here is mine, a short example similar to the one Tim posted, only not as nice. Similar symbols as well. Keep them coming guys.
Teodor

[Jeff D]

Sorry Jim. I have only had time to lurk here lately, but, here is my contribution.

All the Best
Jeff