keris and spirit

Lei Shen Dao · 4th June 2007, 12:50 AM

Considering the pamor related powers, I've heard form some people that a specific pamor doesn't allways indicate only one "power".
For example a was wutah keris is best known for his "good luck" quallities to the owner but it could be for "pengayoman" (protection and saccor) also.

There are some cases that I have encounter about keris that were made for more than one "purpose" for their owners (and I am not speaking for keris with two pamors etc, in this case), I know of an old maduranese blade

(very strong and for fighting) made for a warrior with the purpose of "coming back safe from the battle" and it has pamor was wutah. This keris is not for general protection or for protecting the family of the warrior, but it was strictly for the warrior in battle. Maduranese people were mostly poor those days, so a was wutah pamor was ideal for someone to have a good luck in general. But the empu could "issue" another power in the blade not so obvious for other people than the owner himself.

Have you ever heard something similar?

Raden Usman Djogja · 4th June 2007, 01:57 AM

Yes, I heard similiar. Even, a talisman ever said that his keris could use for everything (it sounds generalist). However, imho, one tool uses effectively to solve one problem. But, if it can solve another problem,imho, it is a bonus. For instance, the main function of car is for transportation. A ferrari can function both for transportation and for prestige... or for other purposes.

Raden Usman Djogja · 4th June 2007, 02:10 AM

revision:

not a talisman but a person who "make" talisman. What is he called in English? (the native, please)

HanaChu69 · 7th June 2007, 11:11 AM

Hi Usman & fellow keris collectors

I enjoyed reading all the stories and sharing session. I have my fair share of weird happenings but this recent incident has got me thinking if there’s any relation to one of my keris. Sometime early this year, my mom mentioned that she saw the back of an old man wearing all white “jubah” (gown) loitering around my hall corridor during midnight. She was on the verge of going to the ladies but changed her mind. I told her that it was nothing and was just fragment of her imagination.

A week later, I was on my way to work and surprisingly saw the old man earlier mentioned by my mom. I was shocked because he smelt so strongly of my keris oil which I bought from Adni (MAG). Is it a co-incidence or what? The best part was he was wearing black sunglasses. He was small built about 1.5m in height and has white hair wearing all white “jubah” (gown). He appeared a while and later on vanished among the crowd. The next day, I smelt my keris oil again lingering for a few minutes before it vanished through the thin air.

From that day onwards, I began to hide pictures of my two patrems from Kampungnet viewers. I’m not sure of the significance. Is he angry with me for sharing the pictures? I’m trying to communicate and asked for the reason through prayers definitely. Hmm…don’t get the wrong idea. I’m not asking for miracles or lottery numbers for I’m not a gambler but in creating a rapport. I believe that he lives in his world and I live in mine. I strongly believe that you must not be a slave to the spirit but mutual respect for each other if we were to co-exist in this world.

Truthfully,
HanaChu69

Mans · 7th June 2007, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HanaChu69

Hi Usman & fellow keris collectors
.................
I’m not asking for miracles or lottery numbers for I’m not a gambler but in creating a rapport. I believe that he lives in his world and I live in mine. I strongly believe that you must not be a slave to the spirit but mutual respect for each other if we were to co-exist in this world.

Truthfully,
HanaChu69

Hi Hana,
Good opinion to keep the faith, and must be keep at our mind and heart

Newsteel · 8th June 2007, 02:14 AM

Hi Hana,
Just like Mans advice, keep it good.

Lucky you the khadam (genie) want to show himself. Interesting if you got to know he is the quardian to which keris (of all the 3 patrems of yours). As usual, this khadam will not speak to us.

HanaChu69 · 8th June 2007, 08:06 PM

Hi Mans & Newsteel

Thank you for the useful advice. I will always bear in mind to keep the faith for I trust my instinct. For your info, I have more than three patrems but not all are being shown in my keris album. I guess I will have to find out the missing piece to my version of jigsaw puzzle.

Regards,
HanaChu69

Raden Usman Djogja · 8th June 2007, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HanaChu69

Hi Usman & fellow keris collectors

Sometime early this year, my mom mentioned that she saw the back of an old man wearing all white “jubah” (gown) loitering around my hall corridor during midnight.

A week later, I was on my way to work and surprisingly saw the old man earlier mentioned by my mom. I was shocked because he smelt so strongly of my keris oil which I bought from Adni (MAG).
Truthfully,
HanaChu69

Hana,

Not only you but also your mom had the same experience.

Several times people told me spiritual experiences related with keris. I believed some stories and doubted any other ones. In your case, I believe it. Why? Because two person without any appointement have seen similiar image.

Perhaps, you can use three different oils for your each different patrem. Then, let you feel what happens after. I do hope, sooner or later, you will be able to distinguish your patrems.

I will share experience to you.
Long time ago, I watched late Empu Djeno on local TV interview. He said about his spiritual experiences during his career as Empu. One of stories was he saw a big snake in his studio just before making special keris.

Months later, I went to his home to ask about the special keris he mentioned in the interview. He said that that special keris was used as family pusaka (never ever for sale).

Just month ago, late Empu Djeno's nephew, young Keris smith Sungkowo, delivered my commissioned kerises (actually, I commissioned to Empu DJeno 2 or 3 years ago). Before delivering those kerises, I requested to Empu Sungkowo to bring that special keris when he delivered kerises to my home. He stayed a night in my home sweet home.

One day later. Three people who coincidentlly coming in my home had a unique experience. Two of them saw a snake whilst one of them didnt. Unbelievable to them why one amongst them could not see it. All of them did not know what happened in my home one day before.

Till now, I still try to get the meaning from the story I have told you already.

Usman

HanaChu69 · 10th June 2007, 06:14 PM

Hi Usman,

I was thinking if it’s true that these “Khadam” (spiritual being) will appear to those selected ones only. What a co-incidence that two of your guests saw the snake exception for the third. It was almost similar to that of mine i.e. my mom and I. Lucky no.2 I guess?? I hope the others who have stories to share could shed some light to this theory.

The above experience has caught me by surprise. Imagine, it was around 10am and I was deep in thought when it happened. I was thinking of outstanding to do list and walking towards my destination (This is my usual habit in the morning). Suddenly I smell the familiar keris oil that triggered me to turn my head to have a quick glance to find its source. I saw the back white hair of an old man in white standing next to a pillar. Nothing extraordinary registered through my mind so I keep on walking. At estmated 10 meters away, I seek out the old man this time out of curiosity because he was not one of those usual familiar faces. He had his side profile facing me but slowly turned to face me directly showing his true physical form (black sunglasses and white “jubah”). He must have felt that I was staring so hard at him. My guess was he was more than 80 years old which I derived due to shrinkage in bone density, unusually very fair and pale exactly like a walking corpse. I quickly looked away for I don’t make a habit staring at men in general. Within seconds, my memory snapped for I remembered my mom’s description of the old man the week before. I turned around in search of the old man again but he simply vanished. I really regret my action for I should have talk to him or kept him within sight. It could be because I was in a stage of shock as in “unbelievable”…

Oh..Thank you for your kind suggestion. In fact, I have the initial idea of concocting different scents for all my patrems but it is still in progress.

Btw, is it possible for you to elaborate on the snake part? How did it appear? Could it be guardian of your new commissioned kerises or from the special keris that Empu Sungkowo brought along with him? I pray and hope that you will find the answers to the meaning of your story too…Best of luck!!

HanaChu69

David · 11th June 2007, 12:18 AM

Hana, i think you will be seeing your old gentleman again. I seems you have unfinished business.

Raden Usman Djogja · 11th June 2007, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HanaChu69

Hi Usman,

Btw, is it possible for you to elaborate on the snake part? How did it appear? Could it be guardian of your new commissioned kerises or from the special keris that Empu Sungkowo brought along with him? I pray and hope that you will find the answers to the meaning of your story too…Best of luck!!

HanaChu69

Hana,

Seemingly, I cannot elaborate it at this moment. Because, now, I am in Africa and the actual appearence was in Indonesia. I just got info when I phoned my parents. It is hard to analyse if just getting information through telephone.
Anyway, thank you for praying and hoping that I will find the meaning of it.

Okay... I agree with David.... about your unfinished business".

Usman

7th June 2007, 11:11 AM	#4
HanaChu69 Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Singapore Posts: 29	Cool!! Hi Usman & fellow keris collectors I enjoyed reading all the stories and sharing session. I have my fair share of weird happenings but this recent incident has got me thinking if there’s any relation to one of my keris. Sometime early this year, my mom mentioned that she saw the back of an old man wearing all white “jubah” (gown) loitering around my hall corridor during midnight. She was on the verge of going to the ladies but changed her mind. I told her that it was nothing and was just fragment of her imagination. A week later, I was on my way to work and surprisingly saw the old man earlier mentioned by my mom. I was shocked because he smelt so strongly of my keris oil which I bought from Adni (MAG). Is it a co-incidence or what? The best part was he was wearing black sunglasses. He was small built about 1.5m in height and has white hair wearing all white “jubah” (gown). He appeared a while and later on vanished among the crowd. The next day, I smelt my keris oil again lingering for a few minutes before it vanished through the thin air. From that day onwards, I began to hide pictures of my two patrems from Kampungnet viewers. I’m not sure of the significance. Is he angry with me for sharing the pictures? I’m trying to communicate and asked for the reason through prayers definitely. Hmm…don’t get the wrong idea. I’m not asking for miracles or lottery numbers for I’m not a gambler but in creating a rapport. I believe that he lives in his world and I live in mine. I strongly believe that you must not be a slave to the spirit but mutual respect for each other if we were to co-exist in this world. Truthfully, HanaChu69

8th June 2007, 08:06 PM	#7
HanaChu69 Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Singapore Posts: 29	Cool!! Hi Mans & Newsteel Thank you for the useful advice. I will always bear in mind to keep the faith for I trust my instinct. For your info, I have more than three patrems but not all are being shown in my keris album. I guess I will have to find out the missing piece to my version of jigsaw puzzle. Regards, HanaChu69

10th June 2007, 06:14 PM	#9
HanaChu69 Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Singapore Posts: 29	Cool!! Hi Usman, I was thinking if it’s true that these “Khadam” (spiritual being) will appear to those selected ones only. What a co-incidence that two of your guests saw the snake exception for the third. It was almost similar to that of mine i.e. my mom and I. Lucky no.2 I guess?? I hope the others who have stories to share could shed some light to this theory. The above experience has caught me by surprise. Imagine, it was around 10am and I was deep in thought when it happened. I was thinking of outstanding to do list and walking towards my destination (This is my usual habit in the morning). Suddenly I smell the familiar keris oil that triggered me to turn my head to have a quick glance to find its source. I saw the back white hair of an old man in white standing next to a pillar. Nothing extraordinary registered through my mind so I keep on walking. At estmated 10 meters away, I seek out the old man this time out of curiosity because he was not one of those usual familiar faces. He had his side profile facing me but slowly turned to face me directly showing his true physical form (black sunglasses and white “jubah”). He must have felt that I was staring so hard at him. My guess was he was more than 80 years old which I derived due to shrinkage in bone density, unusually very fair and pale exactly like a walking corpse. I quickly looked away for I don’t make a habit staring at men in general. Within seconds, my memory snapped for I remembered my mom’s description of the old man the week before. I turned around in search of the old man again but he simply vanished. I really regret my action for I should have talk to him or kept him within sight. It could be because I was in a stage of shock as in “unbelievable”… Oh..Thank you for your kind suggestion. In fact, I have the initial idea of concocting different scents for all my patrems but it is still in progress. Btw, is it possible for you to elaborate on the snake part? How did it appear? Could it be guardian of your new commissioned kerises or from the special keris that Empu Sungkowo brought along with him? I pray and hope that you will find the answers to the meaning of your story too…Best of luck!! HanaChu69 Last edited by HanaChu69; 11th June 2007 at 12:26 PM.

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4th June 2007, 12:50 AM	#1
Lei Shen Dao Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 43	Considering the pamor related powers, I've heard form some people that a specific pamor doesn't allways indicate only one "power". For example a was wutah keris is best known for his "good luck" quallities to the owner but it could be for "pengayoman" (protection and saccor) also. There are some cases that I have encounter about keris that were made for more than one "purpose" for their owners (and I am not speaking for keris with two pamors etc, in this case), I know of an old maduranese blade (very strong and for fighting) made for a warrior with the purpose of "coming back safe from the battle" and it has pamor was wutah. This keris is not for general protection or for protecting the family of the warrior, but it was strictly for the warrior in battle. Maduranese people were mostly poor those days, so a was wutah pamor was ideal for someone to have a good luck in general. But the empu could "issue" another power in the blade not so obvious for other people than the owner himself. Have you ever heard something similar?

4th June 2007, 01:57 AM	#2
Raden Usman Djogja Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 199	Yes, I heard similiar. Even, a talisman ever said that his keris could use for everything (it sounds generalist). However, imho, one tool uses effectively to solve one problem. But, if it can solve another problem,imho, it is a bonus. For instance, the main function of car is for transportation. A ferrari can function both for transportation and for prestige... or for other purposes.

4th June 2007, 02:10 AM	#3
Raden Usman Djogja Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 199	revision: not a talisman but a person who "make" talisman. What is he called in English? (the native, please)

8th June 2007, 02:14 AM	#6
Newsteel Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 132	Hi Hana, Just like Mans advice, keep it good. Lucky you the khadam (genie) want to show himself. Interesting if you got to know he is the quardian to which keris (of all the 3 patrems of yours). As usual, this khadam will not speak to us.

11th June 2007, 12:18 AM	#10
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	Hana, i think you will be seeing your old gentleman again. I seems you have unfinished business.