Eastern Sword: Origin and Age?

Jim McDougall · 23rd May 2007, 04:49 PM

Well said Yannis! The effects of globalization certainly are reflected in the diffusion of weapon forms and decorative styles, and extremely pronounced in the hotbed of trade in these regions in the 19th c.
Tatyana, the 'pirate' application could easily be the case, considering the profound activity taking place in these lucrative trade regions, and which still occurs there in modern times.

The blade on this certainly appears from a European hanger, but since it is an interpretation of European form in the mounts, it is hard to place which location might have fashioned it...however SE Asia seems likely. Is brasswork more commonly found there? It seems Indonesia favored more silverwork in the repousse there, would that be a correct assessment?

Best regards,
Jim

Nick Wardigo · 23rd May 2007, 09:43 PM

This piece is really fascinating.

Speaking as someone who has stared at Vietnamese motifs for way too long, I can say that this does NOT look Vietnamese to me. True, the foliage and curly-cues appear to have a French influence, but even the heavily-French-influenced Vietnamese swords lack the regularity of pattern I'm seeing here.

I like Rick's guess of Malaysia. The scabbard mounts remind me of weapons from there.

Take a look at the pommel. The ribbed grip is, obviously, patterned after European swords, but the patterning on the pommel looks familiar...I think I've seen something like it in carved ivory. Are there keris handles with this sort of patterning?

t_c · 24th May 2007, 03:01 AM

Good eye Nick,
It does seem similar to patterns on Madurese keris handles.

Rick · 24th May 2007, 03:36 PM

What strikes me is the difference in quality and execution between the white metal 'engraving' and the brass repousse on the scabbard and handle.
Could the white metal be a later addition to the scabbard; possibly to cover the loss of original decoration ?

Nick Wardigo · 25th May 2007, 01:51 PM

I agree, Rick...the vast difference in workmanship leads me to think that the white metal fittings were added later. In fact, I find it odd that all of the scabbard fittings are pressed up against one another; it's like the white metal fittings were never intended for this scabbard. I wonder if the white metal fittings came from another weapon entirely and were scavenged to complete this piece.

Rick · 25th May 2007, 02:15 PM

Hi Nick,
Agreed, the white metal pieces are definitely too close to the brass chape and throat.
I can't help but wonder if that area on the scabbard wasn't originally covered with leather or velvet.

Tatyana, does the blade appear to be hand forged?

Tatyana Dianova · 25th May 2007, 07:38 PM

What do you mean by "hand forged"? Using only manpower? Or the power hummers are also allowed? Are the 19c Europenean blades hand forged? But I am pretty sure that this blade was forged and not made from piece of steel like the modern touristic swords.

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23rd May 2007, 04:49 PM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,616	Well said Yannis! The effects of globalization certainly are reflected in the diffusion of weapon forms and decorative styles, and extremely pronounced in the hotbed of trade in these regions in the 19th c. Tatyana, the 'pirate' application could easily be the case, considering the profound activity taking place in these lucrative trade regions, and which still occurs there in modern times. The blade on this certainly appears from a European hanger, but since it is an interpretation of European form in the mounts, it is hard to place which location might have fashioned it...however SE Asia seems likely. Is brasswork more commonly found there? It seems Indonesia favored more silverwork in the repousse there, would that be a correct assessment? Best regards, Jim

23rd May 2007, 09:43 PM	#2
Nick Wardigo Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA Posts: 54	This piece is really fascinating. Speaking as someone who has stared at Vietnamese motifs for way too long, I can say that this does NOT look Vietnamese to me. True, the foliage and curly-cues appear to have a French influence, but even the heavily-French-influenced Vietnamese swords lack the regularity of pattern I'm seeing here. I like Rick's guess of Malaysia. The scabbard mounts remind me of weapons from there. Take a look at the pommel. The ribbed grip is, obviously, patterned after European swords, but the patterning on the pommel looks familiar...I think I've seen something like it in carved ivory. Are there keris handles with this sort of patterning?

24th May 2007, 03:01 AM	#3
t_c Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: ca, usa Posts: 92	Good eye Nick, It does seem similar to patterns on Madurese keris handles.

24th May 2007, 03:36 PM	#4
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,369	What strikes me is the difference in quality and execution between the white metal 'engraving' and the brass repousse on the scabbard and handle. Could the white metal be a later addition to the scabbard; possibly to cover the loss of original decoration ?

25th May 2007, 01:51 PM	#5
Nick Wardigo Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA Posts: 54	I agree, Rick...the vast difference in workmanship leads me to think that the white metal fittings were added later. In fact, I find it odd that all of the scabbard fittings are pressed up against one another; it's like the white metal fittings were never intended for this scabbard. I wonder if the white metal fittings came from another weapon entirely and were scavenged to complete this piece.

25th May 2007, 02:15 PM	#6
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,369	Hi Nick, Agreed, the white metal pieces are definitely too close to the brass chape and throat. I can't help but wonder if that area on the scabbard wasn't originally covered with leather or velvet. Tatyana, does the blade appear to be hand forged?

25th May 2007, 07:38 PM	#7
Tatyana Dianova Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 743	What do you mean by "hand forged"? Using only manpower? Or the power hummers are also allowed? Are the 19c Europenean blades hand forged? But I am pretty sure that this blade was forged and not made from piece of steel like the modern touristic swords.