Valentino's Collection of Oriental Arms

B.I · 22nd May 2007, 12:12 PM

The sale was in 1926, in Hollywood. The collection was seen by the curator of the Met (most likely Bashford Dean) and someone called 'Charles of London', who both remarked of the rarity and importance of some of the pieces. From the listings, it seems he was more a collector, than a passing orientalist during a time when being so was fashionable.
I have a few more images of the European arms, which I will scan and post.

Jim McDougall · 22nd May 2007, 05:51 PM

Hi B.I.
You're right, he probably was more involved than being simply an Orientalist, and most likely acquired under via well informed assistance. Many actors
seriously assimilate into the roles they play, and authentic weapons would have been an ideal vehicle to generate such feeling. I know that personally my entry into collecting antique weapons was borne out of love of history, probably as most of us here, and holding an authentic weapon from a period or even possibly from a certain battle, sent my imagination into overdrive!!

Jeff,
When I knew Eljay in California back in the 70's I was always amazed as his astounding ability in repairing the weapons he would acquire. That grew into his ability to fashion entire hilts, which as noted, are remarkably authentic. He told me once that he always marked or stamped his work so that it would not end up being misrepresented, however, as seen here, some subsequent owners of the work seem to have overridden that effort. As you have noted,
to have one of his pieces is a pleasure in its own right.

All the best,
Jim

Jens Nordlunde · 22nd May 2007, 09:48 PM

Hi BI,
Interesting thread you have started - who would have guessed?
I think there may have been others with the same 'interests', but it is facinating that you have the catalogue

.
Jeff, Interesting piece you show, I wish I could see your collection

- hidden agenda

.
All the best
Jens

Jeff D · 22nd May 2007, 11:14 PM

Hi All,

Thanks Jim, Eljay did email me on where to look for his mark but there is absolutely no sign of it anymore. It woud be interesting if R.V. had a similar sword in his collection? It couldn't have been Eljays work, OR COULD IT! Isn't there a movie about an immortal swordsman?

.

Hi Jens, there is a way to see my collection but it would mean heading west in August

.

All the Best
Jeff

B.I · 23rd May 2007, 12:17 AM

Jeff,
There were 91 lots of arms (not a couple of hundred, as my memory falsley served) and none of them fit your sword. The descriptions are pretty thorough, and the sale was directly after his death, and included what seemed to be all of his possessions.
Jim,
I dont think RV was alone. Cant remember the actors name (not Thief of Baghdad, but something similar??) but he owned three of the most important Oriental swords that have ever hit the market. Three Sulyaman swords of outstanding, world class quality that rocked the collecting world when they appeared un-photographed in an obscure Los Angeles sale. The lesser of the three is now in the Met, and is one of their most important finds.
Pretty much what we all dream of finding one day
Jens,
Yes, obscure, even for me. Was tipped off a few years back about him, and chased the lead down until I found someone with the catalogue. Always worth following through as you never know what you can find!

EDIT -
Jim - Rex Ingram!!!!
Was annoyingly at the tip of my tongue! He aquired them from TE Lawrence. Stunning pieces!

Jeff D · 23rd May 2007, 04:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B.I

Jeff,
There were 91 lots of arms (not a couple of hundred, as my memory falsley served) and none of them fit your sword.

Thanks B.I. ,
I guess Eljay isn't "the one"

All the best and I look forward to any other scans.
Jeff

Jim McDougall · 23rd May 2007, 04:24 PM

Hi Jeff,
LOL!

Eljay is an incredible craftsman, but immortal? I will tell you that he and I met under extraordinary circumstances and years later again, in much the same way. It is truly a much smaller world than we realize.

Thanks B.I. for thinking of the name! It would have driven me nuts

I kept thinking of Ronald Coleman or Douglas Fairbanks, or even Basil Rathbone. These swashbucklers were all outstanding swordsmen, especially Rathbone who was a master, and hated having to lose since he was always the villain.

In one of the photos, a sabre that appears to be a kilij, looks like one of those coral covered pieces from the Maghreb.

Thank you for sharing this interesting catalog and discussion, sure brings back lots of earlier memories from California.....wish I would have started collecting earlier, even the 60s was pretty late.

All the best,
Jim

22nd May 2007, 09:48 PM	#3
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Hi BI, Interesting thread you have started - who would have guessed? I think there may have been others with the same 'interests', but it is facinating that you have the catalogue. Jeff, Interesting piece you show, I wish I could see your collection - hidden agenda. All the best Jens

23rd May 2007, 12:17 AM	#5
B.I Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 485	Jeff, There were 91 lots of arms (not a couple of hundred, as my memory falsley served) and none of them fit your sword. The descriptions are pretty thorough, and the sale was directly after his death, and included what seemed to be all of his possessions. Jim, I dont think RV was alone. Cant remember the actors name (not Thief of Baghdad, but something similar??) but he owned three of the most important Oriental swords that have ever hit the market. Three Sulyaman swords of outstanding, world class quality that rocked the collecting world when they appeared un-photographed in an obscure Los Angeles sale. The lesser of the three is now in the Met, and is one of their most important finds. Pretty much what we all dream of finding one day Jens, Yes, obscure, even for me. Was tipped off a few years back about him, and chased the lead down until I found someone with the catalogue. Always worth following through as you never know what you can find! EDIT - Jim - Rex Ingram!!!! Was annoyingly at the tip of my tongue! He aquired them from TE Lawrence. Stunning pieces! Last edited by B.I; 23rd May 2007 at 12:35 AM.

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22nd May 2007, 12:12 PM	#1
B.I Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 485	The sale was in 1926, in Hollywood. The collection was seen by the curator of the Met (most likely Bashford Dean) and someone called 'Charles of London', who both remarked of the rarity and importance of some of the pieces. From the listings, it seems he was more a collector, than a passing orientalist during a time when being so was fashionable. I have a few more images of the European arms, which I will scan and post.

22nd May 2007, 05:51 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,193	Hi B.I. You're right, he probably was more involved than being simply an Orientalist, and most likely acquired under via well informed assistance. Many actors seriously assimilate into the roles they play, and authentic weapons would have been an ideal vehicle to generate such feeling. I know that personally my entry into collecting antique weapons was borne out of love of history, probably as most of us here, and holding an authentic weapon from a period or even possibly from a certain battle, sent my imagination into overdrive!! Jeff, When I knew Eljay in California back in the 70's I was always amazed as his astounding ability in repairing the weapons he would acquire. That grew into his ability to fashion entire hilts, which as noted, are remarkably authentic. He told me once that he always marked or stamped his work so that it would not end up being misrepresented, however, as seen here, some subsequent owners of the work seem to have overridden that effort. As you have noted, to have one of his pieces is a pleasure in its own right. All the best, Jim

22nd May 2007, 11:14 PM	#4
Jeff D Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: B.C. Canada Posts: 473	Hi All, Thanks Jim, Eljay did email me on where to look for his mark but there is absolutely no sign of it anymore. It woud be interesting if R.V. had a similar sword in his collection? It couldn't have been Eljays work, OR COULD IT! Isn't there a movie about an immortal swordsman? . Hi Jens, there is a way to see my collection but it would mean heading west in August . All the Best Jeff

23rd May 2007, 04:24 PM	#7
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,193	Hi Jeff, LOL! Eljay is an incredible craftsman, but immortal? I will tell you that he and I met under extraordinary circumstances and years later again, in much the same way. It is truly a much smaller world than we realize. Thanks B.I. for thinking of the name! It would have driven me nuts I kept thinking of Ronald Coleman or Douglas Fairbanks, or even Basil Rathbone. These swashbucklers were all outstanding swordsmen, especially Rathbone who was a master, and hated having to lose since he was always the villain. In one of the photos, a sabre that appears to be a kilij, looks like one of those coral covered pieces from the Maghreb. Thank you for sharing this interesting catalog and discussion, sure brings back lots of earlier memories from California.....wish I would have started collecting earlier, even the 60s was pretty late. All the best, Jim