keris and spirit

A. G. Maisey · 9th May 2007, 08:19 PM

In Jawa, meteorites were welded for use as keris pamor by making a package of small pieces wrapped in iron, welding the meteorites into the iron, and then repeatedly folding and welding the iron with the meteorite pieces in it, thus removing the impurities.This produced the base material which could then be used with more iron, or without, for the pamor.

I do not know of any current era keris makers who have welded meteoritic material to make pamor material.

Some years ago I welded some meteoritic material to produce a solid ingot of meteoritic material. I did not incorporate it into iron prior to welding it, but welded the small pieces of meteoritic material together, and then repeatedly folded and rewelded these to produce a solid, clean piece of pure meteoritic material. This was passed to a maker in Surakarta to produce a keris using this as pamor material. I was dissatisfied with this keris and it was sold to (I believe) the Ambassador for Venezuela to Indonesia. There was sufficient material for a second keris, and with this second keris I worked more closely with the maker, and a satisfactory blade was produced.

It would be extremely difficult, if not impossible, to make a piece of pamor material exclusively of meteoritic material, in the usual type of forge used in Jawa.

Raden Usman Djogja · 10th May 2007, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

There was sufficient material for a second keris, and with this second keris I worked more closely with the maker, and a satisfactory blade was produced.

Alan,
Based on your opinion, is the pamor used meteorite different (visually) from pamor used non-meteorite materials?

Ooh... lucky you having opportunities to make those workings/experiments.

Guys, do you have any idea what I should do if I want to buy something trough eBay while there is no PayPal around here?

Pararel with this thread, there is hot discussions about pamor rojogundolo. I have kerises which claimed as rojogundolos (one is Kiai Rojosònô [sònô=dog] and another one is Kiai Gundolobajang [bajang=inperfect fetus?]. Actually, I open to share pictures of mine but getting a problem not know how to upload.

Us

David · 10th May 2007, 01:58 PM

Raden, to upload images is fairly easy. Just beneath your "Reply" box is an area for "Additional Options". The second one of those says "Manage Attachments". Click on that and follow through. It shpould give you the ability to upload any image on your desktop.

And accessing you "Private messages" should be even easier. Go to the top of the page. In the first box, just below the Vikingsword heading there is a thin box that runs the length of the page. On the far right in that box is the private message link that should take you to your messages.

Raden Usman Djogja · 10th May 2007, 06:45 PM

David

wow... thank you for helping me. Now, I can open 2 personal messages. Hopefully, soon I can upload photos.

I plan to take picture this weekend, either saturday or sunday and send on monday. Here, too many times, internetline has troble during weekend. I dont know why accessing internet in the office much faster than at home. Hmm... I am just a blind user.

one more time, thank you David

Usman

Raden Usman Djogja · 10th May 2007, 08:26 PM

dear all krislovers,

Thank God, fortunately, now, I still leave Kiai Gundolobajang in my officeroom. Hmm... sometimes, I bring one of my "Wesi Aji" (whats translation in English? help me please) to the office. During lunchbreak, I watch it, especially, whenever I feel homesick.

Yupe, I just took picture and uploaded it

Okay, I open to hear your comments, guys.

Additional information (if I am not mistaken): shape tilam upih, period pajajaran.

Usman

A. G. Maisey · 10th May 2007, 10:42 PM

Raden, I'm sorry, but I know absolutely nothing about meteorites. The meteoritic material I used came from a very big, well known American meteorite---Arizona or Colorado or somewhere like that. It was a lot of very small pieces, and it was very, very expensive, I think much more expensive than this stuff is now, as with meteoritic material , the market seems to have opened up.

My understanding of the current situation is that there is presently no problem at all in getting whatever one may need in the way of meteoritic material.

Once the inside of the meteorite is revealed it is easy to see if it is stone or metal, but looking at the outside I wouldn't have the vaguest idea of how to differentiate.

I did remark previously that it would be quite improbable that any Javanese maker could weld pure meteorite. I've thought about what I said there, and I'm probably wrong. If a large enough piece of material were to be supplied , and the maker understood that he needed to work very softly in the initial stages, it could probably be brought together into a useable ingot of pure material.

David · 11th May 2007, 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Once the inside of the meteorite is revealed it is easy to see if it is stone or metal, but looking at the outside I wouldn't have the vaguest idea of how to differentiate.

I would think that a magnet might be helpful with this problem.

10th May 2007, 08:26 PM	#5
Raden Usman Djogja Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 199	dear all krislovers, Thank God, fortunately, now, I still leave Kiai Gundolobajang in my officeroom. Hmm... sometimes, I bring one of my "Wesi Aji" (whats translation in English? help me please) to the office. During lunchbreak, I watch it, especially, whenever I feel homesick. Yupe, I just took picture and uploaded it Okay, I open to hear your comments, guys. Additional information (if I am not mistaken): shape tilam upih, period pajajaran. Usman Attached Images

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9th May 2007, 08:19 PM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	In Jawa, meteorites were welded for use as keris pamor by making a package of small pieces wrapped in iron, welding the meteorites into the iron, and then repeatedly folding and welding the iron with the meteorite pieces in it, thus removing the impurities.This produced the base material which could then be used with more iron, or without, for the pamor. I do not know of any current era keris makers who have welded meteoritic material to make pamor material. Some years ago I welded some meteoritic material to produce a solid ingot of meteoritic material. I did not incorporate it into iron prior to welding it, but welded the small pieces of meteoritic material together, and then repeatedly folded and rewelded these to produce a solid, clean piece of pure meteoritic material. This was passed to a maker in Surakarta to produce a keris using this as pamor material. I was dissatisfied with this keris and it was sold to (I believe) the Ambassador for Venezuela to Indonesia. There was sufficient material for a second keris, and with this second keris I worked more closely with the maker, and a satisfactory blade was produced. It would be extremely difficult, if not impossible, to make a piece of pamor material exclusively of meteoritic material, in the usual type of forge used in Jawa.

10th May 2007, 01:58 PM	#3
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,218	Raden, to upload images is fairly easy. Just beneath your "Reply" box is an area for "Additional Options". The second one of those says "Manage Attachments". Click on that and follow through. It shpould give you the ability to upload any image on your desktop. And accessing you "Private messages" should be even easier. Go to the top of the page. In the first box, just below the Vikingsword heading there is a thin box that runs the length of the page. On the far right in that box is the private message link that should take you to your messages.

10th May 2007, 06:45 PM	#4
Raden Usman Djogja Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 199	David wow... thank you for helping me. Now, I can open 2 personal messages. Hopefully, soon I can upload photos. I plan to take picture this weekend, either saturday or sunday and send on monday. Here, too many times, internetline has troble during weekend. I dont know why accessing internet in the office much faster than at home. Hmm... I am just a blind user. one more time, thank you David Usman

10th May 2007, 10:42 PM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	Raden, I'm sorry, but I know absolutely nothing about meteorites. The meteoritic material I used came from a very big, well known American meteorite---Arizona or Colorado or somewhere like that. It was a lot of very small pieces, and it was very, very expensive, I think much more expensive than this stuff is now, as with meteoritic material , the market seems to have opened up. My understanding of the current situation is that there is presently no problem at all in getting whatever one may need in the way of meteoritic material. Once the inside of the meteorite is revealed it is easy to see if it is stone or metal, but looking at the outside I wouldn't have the vaguest idea of how to differentiate. I did remark previously that it would be quite improbable that any Javanese maker could weld pure meteorite. I've thought about what I said there, and I'm probably wrong. If a large enough piece of material were to be supplied , and the maker understood that he needed to work very softly in the initial stages, it could probably be brought together into a useable ingot of pure material.