Beautiful Pendray knife as well as the price!!

[Mare Rosu]

I also agree on the "garish" as stated by Ariel as well as what Louieblades said. As the blade did not sell also indicates the "Price is not Right".
My comments are on the BLADE not the furniture. I think that Pendray's modern wootz is some of the best around. I am of the opinion that Pendray made just the blade and someone else made the rest.
I did learn something (any day is a good day when I learn anything, and most of my days are very good) when Ariel stated that it is the cheapest style work. I am always amazed of the collective knowledge of folks on this forum.

[ariel]

Originally Posted by Mare Rosu

I also agree on the "garish" as stated by Ariel as well as what Louieblades said. As the blade did not sell also indicates the "Price is not Right".
My comments are on the BLADE not the furniture. I think that Pendray's modern wootz is some of the best around. I am of the opinion that Pendray made just the blade and someone else made the rest.
I did learn something (any day is a good day when I learn anything, and most of my days are very good) when Ariel stated that it is the cheapest style work. I am always amazed of the collective knowledge of folks on this forum.

Here is an example of a contemporary, mass-produced Georgian "kindjal" with a filigree job similar to the $8,500 one
http://cgi.ebay.com/GEORGIAN-CAUCASI...QQcmdZViewItem

[Lew]

A.G.

I understand that some knives are more work intensive but the smith who wanted to charge me $1200 for a using knife told me it took him a week to make a simple hunter and he broke it down by the hour in which he charged me for the time it took for the blade to cool after each forging 3 days where the blade just sat in his shop cooling slowly. A good knife smith should be able to make a standard knife in 3-4 days tops. Fancy art knives could take months of work and I can undestand having to pay a high price for one. Al Pendray would charge about $650-$800 for the blade so $8,000 just for the hilt and a scabbard is quite a bit much in IMO. There are good smiths here in the states that make good knives at affordable prices those are the only ones I deal with now when I want a good using blade. We have had this discussion at some seminars on custom knife making and feel that $35 an hour is fair for making knives most of these guys use trip hammers so it is quicker for them to bang out a blade. I think we just about exhausted this subject and there are always pro and cons when dealing with modern custom knives I think this thread should be put to rest at this point before it gets out of hand.

Regards

Lew

[A. G. Maisey]

Yes Lew, I tend to agree with you.

After all, this is a forum for discussion of ethnographic weaponry, not custom knives.

But just as a matter of interest, what do you think the capital investment might be in a trip hammer?

[ariel]

My comments are not meant to insult or belittle modern bladesmiths or other artisans involved in making replicas, modern renditions, old style etc, etc knives and swords.
I am just trying to clarify my purely personal reasons for not collecting them.
For me, history behind the object is of paramount importance. Any modern creation, no matter how technically advanced or artistic, lacks the ingredient of authenticity. These are not for me.
Others admire technical superiority of modern blades and the variety of exotic materials unavailable to old masters. They are the market that decides how much to pay for a contemporary sword.
The pricing for both ends of the spectrum is purely artificial and equally arbitrary. Any knifemaker, like any artisan, can charge whatever price he wishes. The market will decide. After all, what is the rational explanation for $3,000 - $15,000 price tags on Fiegel's Tulwars? $ 100,000 for a Katana? they have no practical contemporary value. Why is Kilij costing on the average twice as much as Shamshir? Who said that a good Khanjarli should command 5 times as much as Bichwa? The price is dictated not by the number of hours or cost of equipment, but by the collectors' "fashion of the day". Moro today, Chechnya tomorrow, Zaza Revishvili in 100 years.

[Lew]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Yes Lew, I tend to agree with you.

After all, this is a forum for discussion of ethnographic weaponry, not custom knives.

But just as a matter of interest, what do you think the capital investment might be in a trip hammer?

A.G.

A new 100lb trip hammer will cost about $5000 but if you do some looking you can buy an older used one for about half.

Lew

[A. G. Maisey]

Thanks Lew.

And that is only part of the capital investment required to produce a finely crafted custom knife to the standards demanded by today's extremely discerning buyers.

The makers I have known over the years have never achieved anything like the $35 PH that you consider to be reasonable remuneration for this type of work, and they have mostly regarded their investment in the equipment required to produce fine knives to be in the nature of "hobby costs".

However, if somebody wants to make a living from his work, he must factor in his capital costs, depreciation on his plant and equipment, his insurance costs, he must make provision for superannuation, and if he wants a holiday every year, or to cover days when he cannot work because of illness, he must factor allowances for that in too.Then there is the cost of material, and any other unmentioned overheads.

Ultimately the marketplace decides the price of a product. Makers like the fellow who you consider charged you too much for his product may not be able to compete. However, if that maker was doing something for which there was a demand, and which was unique, then possibly he could continue to charge prices which to you appeared to be unreasonable.

My personal position is that modern custom knife work, for the most part leaves me cold. Don't like it at all. I much prefer older pieces, or pieces with an ethnic flavour. For instance, I have a very soft spot for puukos.

But the only way we can truly determine in an objective way if any item is over priced is by analysis of the production of the item concerned.

Of course, the marketplace is not much into objective production analysis, but it is very sensitive to price, so what we usually finish up with is the bare minimum standard that satisfies the requirement.

[Tim Simmons]

Talking about the market is a tricky thing. Demand can be governed by a taste or perception rather than enquiry and investigation, largely depending on how intellegent the money is