16thC African Sword

fernando · 25th April 2007, 10:15 PM

Hi Brian
No comparison possible between me and Marc. I am just less than an ignorant, while Marc is a master.
But let's pretend that sword is actually of Portuguese influence or inheritance.
As just said the other day in the thread signaled by Flavio, these Afro-Portuguese swords were originaly mounted by Portuguese resident smiths ( XV century ), but quickly imitated by the Congolese artisans. While the Portuguese production has soon ceased, the Congolese kept making them until the XIX century. It is of general knowledge that actual Portuguese specimens are very, very rare. On the other hand, the British Museum is a serious house. I would have no doubt that their example is real old, which doesn't avoid that it is a native made piece, from the early period.
It is said that in both cases the blades were imported from Europe, which makes it dificult to distinguish either version, if it weren't for the hilt quality aspect.
These swords have played an important role in Congo society, where the Kings got to be christianized.The Cross symbols being perforated in the superior quillons, besides the respect (?) reached by the Portuguese , made these swords achieve a symbolic status, becoming possession of local aristrocacy, still today called swords of authority.
I have spotted these pictures the other day
http://african-tribal-art-weapons.eu...g2_itemId=2631
http://african-tribal-art-weapons.eu...g2_itemId=2388
http://african-tribal-art-weapons.eu...g2_itemId=2633
http://african-tribal-art-weapons.eu...g2_itemId=2635
I am not at all an expert, but these examples's crudeness is well visible.
I look forward to seing those pictures of yours, and so will the other experimented members.
kind regards
fernando

Marc · 25th April 2007, 11:07 PM

I'm afraid I'm far from being a "master" of anything, but you're also far from being an ignorant, Fernando

This is extremely interesting. The original typology has already been discussed in the other thread, but the extent and the characteristics of this African production is a subject that deserves definitely a deeper study. The key element are the blades, probably. I would really like to be able to take a closer looks to some of them...

Thanks for this info, gentlemen.

B.I · 27th April 2007, 07:06 PM

Sorry, I didnt get a chance to unload the images, and have left me camera at work!
Will definately do so early next week!
I am very curious for an opinion from those that know, which of course would be easier from an image, and not my previous description.

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25th April 2007, 10:15 PM	#1
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Hi Brian No comparison possible between me and Marc. I am just less than an ignorant, while Marc is a master. But let's pretend that sword is actually of Portuguese influence or inheritance. As just said the other day in the thread signaled by Flavio, these Afro-Portuguese swords were originaly mounted by Portuguese resident smiths ( XV century ), but quickly imitated by the Congolese artisans. While the Portuguese production has soon ceased, the Congolese kept making them until the XIX century. It is of general knowledge that actual Portuguese specimens are very, very rare. On the other hand, the British Museum is a serious house. I would have no doubt that their example is real old, which doesn't avoid that it is a native made piece, from the early period. It is said that in both cases the blades were imported from Europe, which makes it dificult to distinguish either version, if it weren't for the hilt quality aspect. These swords have played an important role in Congo society, where the Kings got to be christianized.The Cross symbols being perforated in the superior quillons, besides the respect (?) reached by the Portuguese , made these swords achieve a symbolic status, becoming possession of local aristrocacy, still today called swords of authority. I have spotted these pictures the other day http://african-tribal-art-weapons.eu...g2_itemId=2631 http://african-tribal-art-weapons.eu...g2_itemId=2388 http://african-tribal-art-weapons.eu...g2_itemId=2633 http://african-tribal-art-weapons.eu...g2_itemId=2635 I am not at all an expert, but these examples's crudeness is well visible. I look forward to seing those pictures of yours, and so will the other experimented members. kind regards fernando

25th April 2007, 11:07 PM	#2
Marc Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Madrid / Barcelona Posts: 256	I'm afraid I'm far from being a "master" of anything, but you're also far from being an ignorant, Fernando This is extremely interesting. The original typology has already been discussed in the other thread, but the extent and the characteristics of this African production is a subject that deserves definitely a deeper study. The key element are the blades, probably. I would really like to be able to take a closer looks to some of them... Thanks for this info, gentlemen.

27th April 2007, 07:06 PM	#3
B.I Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 485	Sorry, I didnt get a chance to unload the images, and have left me camera at work! Will definately do so early next week! I am very curious for an opinion from those that know, which of course would be easier from an image, and not my previous description.