Tulwar scabbard

Jens Nordlunde · 26th March 2007, 09:38 PM

Hi Josh,

Nice to see you here

. You are right about the gold/red, I wonder why I did not think about it?

Jens

Pukka Bundook · 27th March 2007, 02:17 PM

Dave,
There's not much to add to what you have already deduced about making a scabbard.
In fact, that's about exactly what I did.!.........
Except I drew around blade on one piece of wood, as they'd fit inside each other's curve, if you get mi drift!

Only thing to remember is to flip the blade over before you draw 'round it the second time!!
With the 'troughs' cut, I lay the blade in the cut-out troughs, and tried "drawing" it, watching for any area it would 'ride up' out of the channel when drawn,, then cut out tight spots.
Once I had it cut out and clamped together, and had clearance for blade to draw, I cut out the out-side lines very close to finished size.
This was to avoid cutting through the walls when finishing.

Also, put a witness mark across both halves when everything fits together right, before gluing.

When glued, I greased the blade a bit so it wouldn't stick, and ran it in and out, to make sure no glue globs would set and interfere with sword passage.
I kept doing this now and again, as glue dried.

Only other thing, on a lot of wood, when you've "stabbed in" with the chisel on your initial pencil line, it's often Much easier to cut with chisel across the grain, to-wards your initial stab in cut.
(Rather than trying to run chisel down the grain, where the grain tends to have a mind of its own!!)
Thats all I know about it.........
Though I'm sure there are chaps here that know a whole lot more!!

Re the canvas or cotton, before velvet, You probabnly know a lot more about it than I do.
On this one, the bit of rotton velvet that had survived, was glued straight to the wood, overlapped and not stitched in place at all.

Can you tell me what the normal application process was?

Thanks Dave,

Richard.

katana · 27th March 2007, 07:17 PM

Hi Richard,
thanks for the additional info

As to the cotton/canvas backing....It probably depends on the 'finishing' material. I think the idea of the backing is to 'smooth out' the surface so that finer fabrics appear smoother. Velvet would not show any minor imperfections in the woodwork below.......I am not suggesting there are 'imperfections' in your own scabbard

(it actually looks very nice, the fittings set it off nicely...but I do not think the wood would have been left 'uncovered' originally....unfortunately) Glueing seems to be the normal method, however I do not know what sort of adhesive would have been used originally. Most modern 'contact' adhesives should be OK....but I would recommend that you 'seal' the wood first by applying a coat of the adhesive to the scabbard and letting it dry.....and then use the glue to bond the fabric 'coating'. I have one velvet covered scabbard which has the 'seam' ( folded edge) hidden beneath some decorative 'edging' but do not know whether this is traditional.I want to make a scabbard for the khanda but would like to find a 'period' looking covering for the wooden core......and the 'suspension' rings/mountings will have to be fabricated.(again I will have to find examples). I really like those on your scabbard.....sufficently ornate without being 'over the top'.

One other thought....the scabbard furniture...was it fixed/riveted to the scabbard or bonded/glued to the scabbard?

Regards David

Pukka Bundook · 29th March 2007, 01:43 PM

Hi David,
The middle fitting was loose when I got the scabbard, and no sign of glue or anything to hold it in place. Probably a friction fit.
On new scabbard, It took a while sanding and fitting 'till the fittings would slide up far enough to align in their original position, as scabbard has some taper.
The velvet had been added After the fittings were in place, fitted and glued around their contours.

The lower fitting was interesting.
The last 7 inches or so of scabbard was an add-on, either because of an earlier breakage, or more likely, the wood used wasn't wide enough for the curve.
This added piece was half-lapped and glued together with the same resin that is used to glue the tang into the hilt. (Peepole tree resin?)
Also, this same resin had beed added fairly thickly to lower part of scabbard,to glue the chape (or lower fitting) into place.

Re. the decorative strip to cover the join in the fabric;

Q. Can you (or anyone else for that matter!) tell me if this strip is normally on the showing side or Inside of the scabbard??
Thanks in advance,

Richard.

katana · 29th March 2007, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pukka Bundook

Re. the decorative strip to cover the join in the fabric;

Q. Can you (or anyone else for that matter!) tell me if this strip is normally on the showing side or Inside of the scabbard??
Thanks in advance,

Richard.

Hi Richard,
The join (on my one) is on the facing side.....but do not know if this is usual. Looking forward to the pictures of the finished scabbard.

Regards David

26th March 2007, 09:38 PM	#1
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Hi Josh, Nice to see you here. You are right about the gold/red, I wonder why I did not think about it? Jens

27th March 2007, 07:17 PM	#3
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Hi Richard, thanks for the additional info As to the cotton/canvas backing....It probably depends on the 'finishing' material. I think the idea of the backing is to 'smooth out' the surface so that finer fabrics appear smoother. Velvet would not show any minor imperfections in the woodwork below.......I am not suggesting there are 'imperfections' in your own scabbard (it actually looks very nice, the fittings set it off nicely...but I do not think the wood would have been left 'uncovered' originally....unfortunately) Glueing seems to be the normal method, however I do not know what sort of adhesive would have been used originally. Most modern 'contact' adhesives should be OK....but I would recommend that you 'seal' the wood first by applying a coat of the adhesive to the scabbard and letting it dry.....and then use the glue to bond the fabric 'coating'. I have one velvet covered scabbard which has the 'seam' ( folded edge) hidden beneath some decorative 'edging' but do not know whether this is traditional.I want to make a scabbard for the khanda but would like to find a 'period' looking covering for the wooden core......and the 'suspension' rings/mountings will have to be fabricated.(again I will have to find examples). I really like those on your scabbard.....sufficently ornate without being 'over the top'. One other thought....the scabbard furniture...was it fixed/riveted to the scabbard or bonded/glued to the scabbard? Regards David Last edited by katana; 27th March 2007 at 07:29 PM.

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27th March 2007, 02:17 PM	#2
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Dave, There's not much to add to what you have already deduced about making a scabbard. In fact, that's about exactly what I did.!......... Except I drew around blade on one piece of wood, as they'd fit inside each other's curve, if you get mi drift! Only thing to remember is to flip the blade over before you draw 'round it the second time!! With the 'troughs' cut, I lay the blade in the cut-out troughs, and tried "drawing" it, watching for any area it would 'ride up' out of the channel when drawn,, then cut out tight spots. Once I had it cut out and clamped together, and had clearance for blade to draw, I cut out the out-side lines very close to finished size. This was to avoid cutting through the walls when finishing. Also, put a witness mark across both halves when everything fits together right, before gluing. When glued, I greased the blade a bit so it wouldn't stick, and ran it in and out, to make sure no glue globs would set and interfere with sword passage. I kept doing this now and again, as glue dried. Only other thing, on a lot of wood, when you've "stabbed in" with the chisel on your initial pencil line, it's often Much easier to cut with chisel across the grain, to-wards your initial stab in cut. (Rather than trying to run chisel down the grain, where the grain tends to have a mind of its own!!) Thats all I know about it......... Though I'm sure there are chaps here that know a whole lot more!! Re the canvas or cotton, before velvet, You probabnly know a lot more about it than I do. On this one, the bit of rotton velvet that had survived, was glued straight to the wood, overlapped and not stitched in place at all. Can you tell me what the normal application process was? Thanks Dave, Richard.

29th March 2007, 01:43 PM	#4
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Hi David, The middle fitting was loose when I got the scabbard, and no sign of glue or anything to hold it in place. Probably a friction fit. On new scabbard, It took a while sanding and fitting 'till the fittings would slide up far enough to align in their original position, as scabbard has some taper. The velvet had been added After the fittings were in place, fitted and glued around their contours. The lower fitting was interesting. The last 7 inches or so of scabbard was an add-on, either because of an earlier breakage, or more likely, the wood used wasn't wide enough for the curve. This added piece was half-lapped and glued together with the same resin that is used to glue the tang into the hilt. (Peepole tree resin?) Also, this same resin had beed added fairly thickly to lower part of scabbard,to glue the chape (or lower fitting) into place. Re. the decorative strip to cover the join in the fabric; Q. Can you (or anyone else for that matter!) tell me if this strip is normally on the showing side or Inside of the scabbard?? Thanks in advance, Richard.