What is it?

RSWORD · 23rd February 2005, 03:45 AM

Charles,

Nothing wrong with disagreeing with your Southern Brutha. After all, you say potato, I say tater.

I went back and had a second look at this thing and noticed a few other things about it. First, the seller is out of Indonesia. While one cannot conclude anything about a piece based on where it is currently located, that is an interesting thing. Why would a gladius hilted european sword be in Indonesia? Is this style of blade and hilt common of the Dutch? When looking at one of the pics where you have a good profile shot of the handle from a top view, the handle reminds me of a tulwar handle. The way the grip swells out on both sides, the cross guards and even the pommel cap are not unlike tulwar grips. The blade is also unlike blades I have seen on those gladius hilted european swords. This one has a deep wide fuller its full length whereas those european type swords tend to be more diamond shape in cross profile. The simple leather scabbard with seam is not unlike similar scabbards used to house tulwars. More food for thought?

Rick · 23rd February 2005, 04:07 AM

Considering the poor condition of the blade I think the scabbard style is a non issue in that it most likely is a replacement for the long lost original .

tom hyle · 24th February 2005, 02:39 AM

The hilt is not contoured like a tulwar hilt. A tulwar hilt is swelled in the middle, yes, and narrower at both ends, but it is (usually conspicuously) smalles at the top, such that the little finger can wrap around well. This hilt is fairly fat and round or nearly so at the butt, and the narrowest part is at the bottom, for the forefinger, which is an European feature, largely relating to control in their traditional thrusting methods.
You might note that I said artillery (etc.) gladius (etc.). The general uninlayed "tiffany" type (metal) hilt is not limitted to gladii, nor to the artillery, nor to military weapons, for that matter. In the simple cross guard and mushroom or sperish pommel it is not uncommon on yatagans and straight SE broadswords, as here, and is not unseen on sabres and smallswords, as well, of course, as gladius type blades, including occassional SE varients.
I noticed that part that looks engraved; looks different than the rest......
I don't really see the crudity, but then I can't magnify it; where's Spock when you need him?

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23rd February 2005, 03:45 AM	#1
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,093	Charles, Nothing wrong with disagreeing with your Southern Brutha. After all, you say potato, I say tater. I went back and had a second look at this thing and noticed a few other things about it. First, the seller is out of Indonesia. While one cannot conclude anything about a piece based on where it is currently located, that is an interesting thing. Why would a gladius hilted european sword be in Indonesia? Is this style of blade and hilt common of the Dutch? When looking at one of the pics where you have a good profile shot of the handle from a top view, the handle reminds me of a tulwar handle. The way the grip swells out on both sides, the cross guards and even the pommel cap are not unlike tulwar grips. The blade is also unlike blades I have seen on those gladius hilted european swords. This one has a deep wide fuller its full length whereas those european type swords tend to be more diamond shape in cross profile. The simple leather scabbard with seam is not unlike similar scabbards used to house tulwars. More food for thought?

23rd February 2005, 04:07 AM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,376	Considering the poor condition of the blade I think the scabbard style is a non issue in that it most likely is a replacement for the long lost original .

24th February 2005, 02:39 AM	#3
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	The hilt is not contoured like a tulwar hilt. A tulwar hilt is swelled in the middle, yes, and narrower at both ends, but it is (usually conspicuously) smalles at the top, such that the little finger can wrap around well. This hilt is fairly fat and round or nearly so at the butt, and the narrowest part is at the bottom, for the forefinger, which is an European feature, largely relating to control in their traditional thrusting methods. You might note that I said artillery (etc.) gladius (etc.). The general uninlayed "tiffany" type (metal) hilt is not limitted to gladii, nor to the artillery, nor to military weapons, for that matter. In the simple cross guard and mushroom or sperish pommel it is not uncommon on yatagans and straight SE broadswords, as here, and is not unseen on sabres and smallswords, as well, of course, as gladius type blades, including occassional SE varients. I noticed that part that looks engraved; looks different than the rest...... I don't really see the crudity, but then I can't magnify it; where's Spock when you need him?