KERIS WITH IVORY HILT

[rahman]

No, I stand corrected. It's would be much too long to be a bahari.

Sorry!

[David]

Originally Posted by rahman

No, I stand corrected. It's would be much too long to be a bahari.
Sorry!

I don't mean to hijack this thread, but i guess this is as good a place as any for these questions. Obviously i don't think this is a bahari either, but more for matters of form rather than length. But is 11.5" really much too long for a bahari? The one i linked to earlier in this thread is about 11" long. Adni has at least two on his site in the sold section that are 12" long. Here is a link to one: http://www.geocities.com/keris4u/ker...ory_2warna.htm
I have a anak alang that is just under 16", but i have also seen keris listed as anak alang as short as 12" or 13". Most of the full length panjangs i have seen are over 20".
So there appears to be a little bit of cross-over. Are some of these blades being mis-catagorized? How specific are these length limits? Could they be a bit different depending upon origin of the blade? Are there any other attribute other than length that distinguish a bahari from a anak alang from a full length panjang?

[Alam Shah]

Originally Posted by David

... I have an anak alang that is just under 16", but i have also seen keris listed as anak alang as short as 12" or 13". Most of the full length panjangs i have seen are over 20".
So there appears to be a little bit of cross-over. Are some of these blades being mis-catagorized? How specific are these length limits? Could they be a bit different depending upon origin of the blade? Are there any other attribute other than length that distinguish a bahari from a anak alang from a full length panjang?

Basically the bahari, anak alang, alang, panjang are blade form of a similar class. The main difference is the length. A long bahari could be a short anak alang and a long anak alang could be a short panjang.

As far as classifications are concerned, there is no fixed length (contrary to my previous post of long ago). The thing about blades from these regions are, the moment you try to classify them, one suddenly pops up to 'defy' classification. The main reason I believe, may be due to te absence of standards to conform to, like the pakem of javanese kerises.

This blade form is not bahari class, imho.

[David]

Originally Posted by Alam Shah

This blade form is not bahari class, imho.

I don't image it is an anak alang either.

As far as you know Shahrial (or anyone else ) is there any specifically different cultural importance to the three different blades in this class? Why would someone commission a bahari as opposed to an anak alang for instance. The full length panjang are know as "executioner" keris, but this certainly wasn't their main purpose for being.

[Alam Shah]

Originally Posted by David

I don't image it is an anak alang either. .

Nope it's not an anak alang either.

Originally Posted by David

... Why would someone commission a bahari as opposed to an anak alang for instance. The full length panjang are know as "executioner" keris, but this certainly wasn't their main purpose for being.

The anak alang term is commonly used in Peninsular Malaysia, lesser in Sumatra.
The bahari common in Sumatra than in Peninsular Malaysia.

There are slight differences in material and other details from these two regions. Just compare a typical minangkabau bahari with a peninsular anak alang... (of course there are countless variation in between), what can you tell?

Above: A Peninsular Malay anak alang (courtesy of MAG).
Below: A Minangkabau bahari (courtesy of VVV).

As you can see, it's quite similar, with slight differences .

[David]

Originally Posted by Alam Shah

The anak alang form is commonly found in Peninsular Malaysia, lesser in Sumatra.

Interestingly my anak alang is believed to be from Sumatra.

[Alam Shah]

Originally Posted by David

Interestingly my anak alang is believed to be from Sumatra.

Good for you ... If you don't mind, can we see some pictures.

[Alam Shah]

Originally Posted by David

The full length panjang are know as "executioner" keris, but this certainly wasn't their main purpose for being.

David, what do you think is their main purpose?

[David]

Originally Posted by Alam Shah

David, what do you think is their main purpose?

Good question. I have seen very little other than vague passing remarks about the panjang, mostly alluding to it's use as an execitioners keris. I am certain that indeed it has served this purpose, but i also wonder if that isn't just an incidental purpose of status level, if indeed these blades are held by those with the authority and "right" to execute. I would guess that signal to the societal "rank" of the keris holder might be its truer purpose. I am sure that there are many of these blades around that never took a life. Does anyone have any information on just what part of the populous owned this type of keris?

[rahman]

Sorry, gang, let me just try to reframe this discussion so poor Carlos can have his answers

My first impression looking at the full profile and a bit of the fittings in the photos made me feel it is a bahari. By saying it's too long to be a bahari does not mean that I think Carlos' blade is an anak alang either.

Many Sumatran baharis display a 'tapering waist'. This is quite rare among anak alangs, on either side of the Malacca Straits.

Another thing that I missed is the fairly deep picitan on Carlos' blade.

So, please, I withdraw all remarks about baharis and anak alangs in this thread.

thanks.