Kampilan with unusual Thalassic guard form

zelbone · 13th February 2007, 07:13 AM

I've got one...not that rare...

...saw a few with the same guard here in Mindanao as well. Unfortunately...most you wouldn't have access to these weapons.

FenrisWolf · 13th February 2007, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zelbone

I've got one...not that rare...

...saw a few with the same guard here in Mindanao as well. Unfortunately...most you wouldn't have access to these weapons.

Now you have my curiosity piqued, and I don't even collect these. On one hand you say they aren't that rare, and on the other that most collectors wouldn't have access. Is there some special significance to the style of hilt that precludes it falling into the hnd of foreign collectors? Inquiring minds want to know!

Bill M · 13th February 2007, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zelbone

I've got one...not that rare...

Zel - would you go for "unusual" I can't find anyone said "rare" in this thread

katana · 13th February 2007, 01:31 PM

Rare ? unusual ? less common? ......whatever the outcome....I really like the hilt..

...the zooamorphic 'pommel' is interesting...do you know what it represents. The 'square' jaw and large eyes puts me off the idea it is a Serpent's head.
However, the (metal ?) wavy piece ( not very scientific

) on the guard certainly 'shouts' snake and I'm sure there is significance to the number of 'curves'.

David · 13th February 2007, 01:39 PM

As for the guard Bill, i would say perhaps "less common" is the term i would use. I have seen far too many kampilan on eBay with this style guard to consider it "unusual", though yours is i much nicer example than most of the ones i've seen.

Bill M · 13th February 2007, 01:54 PM

Thanks, guys. I seem to have gotten into a description situation. I have been quoting a description of this kampilan from Cato's "Moro Swords." These are his words and I should be referencing him.

Please see pages 49 and 54 of "Moro Swords."

"34. A curved kampilan guard with an unusual thalassic form."

When I search for "thalassic" I see the "Free Onine Dictionary" saying:

Adj. 1. thalassic - relating to the seas, especially smaller or inland seas;- Scientific American

Thinking in this context, I assume the guard looks a bit like a boat. But it could have other meanings.

I apologise for not quoting my sources and will be sure to quote them in the future.

---- Bill

VANDOO · 13th February 2007, 08:17 PM

A NICE LOOKING KAMPILIAN

WHEN I FIRST STARTED COLLECTING IN THE 1960'S I NEVER SAW A KAMPILIAN WOOD GAURD THAT WAS DIFFERENT ON THE ENDS. KAMPILIANS WERE NOT SEEN OFTEN AT GUN SHOWS OR OTHER PLACES DURING THOSE TIMES BUT KRIS AND BARONG AND TAALIBON/GUNONG WERE FAIRLY COMMON. THERE WERE VARIATIONS IN THE DESIGN OF THE CROSSGAURDS BUT THE ENDS WERE ALWAYS THE SAME ON BOTH SIDES. I HAD NOT SEEN AN EXAMPLE OF THE FORM LIKE YOURS UNTILL EBAY CAME INTO BEING. SO PERHAPS THEY ARE A FORM FROM SOME AREA OR REGION NOT COMMONLY VISITED BY OUTSIDERS OR MORE LIKELY A MORE RECENT STYLE FORM. I HAVE NOT HANDLED A LOT OF EXAMPLES OF THESE SO CAN'T JUDGE THEIR AGE, WHAT IS YOUR OPINION LOOKING AT YOUR EXAMPLE PRE WW2 OR AFTER WW2?

I THINK KAMPILIAN, KRIS, PANABAS AND BARONG PRODUCTION HAS NEVER STOPPED ENTIRELY AND HAVE SEEN PLENTY OF EXAMPLES THAT HAVE BEEN ANTIQUED TO LOOK OLD ,SOME VERY WELL MADE AND SOME OF LESSER WORKMANSHIP. SOMETIMES THE BLADE IS AN OLDER ONE WITH NEWER FITTINGS WHICH IS TO BE EXPECTED BUT I SEE NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT AS LONG AS THE WORKMANSHIP IS GOOD QUALITY AND TRADITIONAL.

Tim Simmons · 13th February 2007, 08:31 PM

Very helpful post Barry, it is the right name I hope. Your post is clearly floral in decoration. The one Bill post is now clearly waves. Why is there such a distinction in design? I know little of this area except the general terms of Dayak and Sea Dayak which I suspect are rather collector/western terms even if there are communities that live by and from the sea.

ariel · 14th February 2007, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Marsh

Thanks, guys. I seem to have gotten into a description situation. I have been quoting a description of this kampilan from Cato's "Moro Swords." These are his words and I should be referencing him.

Please see pages 49 and 54 of "Moro Swords."

"34. A curved kampilan guard with an unusual thalassic form."

When I search for "thalassic" I see the "Free Onine Dictionary" saying:

Adj. 1. thalassic - relating to the seas, especially smaller or inland seas;- Scientific American

Thinking in this context, I assume the guard looks a bit like a boat. But it could have other meanings.

I apologise for not quoting my sources and will be sure to quote them in the future.

---- Bill

As the old British academic doggerel goes:
"Thalassa or Thalatta?
The former or the latter?"

And, of course, the shout of relieved Xenophonic Greeks " Thalassa!" ( Or was it Thalatta, anyway?)

Tim Simmons · 15th February 2007, 05:39 PM

You say tomatoe, I say tomato

13th February 2007, 08:17 PM	#7
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	A NICE LOOKING KAMPILIAN WHEN I FIRST STARTED COLLECTING IN THE 1960'S I NEVER SAW A KAMPILIAN WOOD GAURD THAT WAS DIFFERENT ON THE ENDS. KAMPILIANS WERE NOT SEEN OFTEN AT GUN SHOWS OR OTHER PLACES DURING THOSE TIMES BUT KRIS AND BARONG AND TAALIBON/GUNONG WERE FAIRLY COMMON. THERE WERE VARIATIONS IN THE DESIGN OF THE CROSSGAURDS BUT THE ENDS WERE ALWAYS THE SAME ON BOTH SIDES. I HAD NOT SEEN AN EXAMPLE OF THE FORM LIKE YOURS UNTILL EBAY CAME INTO BEING. SO PERHAPS THEY ARE A FORM FROM SOME AREA OR REGION NOT COMMONLY VISITED BY OUTSIDERS OR MORE LIKELY A MORE RECENT STYLE FORM. I HAVE NOT HANDLED A LOT OF EXAMPLES OF THESE SO CAN'T JUDGE THEIR AGE, WHAT IS YOUR OPINION LOOKING AT YOUR EXAMPLE PRE WW2 OR AFTER WW2? I THINK KAMPILIAN, KRIS, PANABAS AND BARONG PRODUCTION HAS NEVER STOPPED ENTIRELY AND HAVE SEEN PLENTY OF EXAMPLES THAT HAVE BEEN ANTIQUED TO LOOK OLD ,SOME VERY WELL MADE AND SOME OF LESSER WORKMANSHIP. SOMETIMES THE BLADE IS AN OLDER ONE WITH NEWER FITTINGS WHICH IS TO BE EXPECTED BUT I SEE NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT AS LONG AS THE WORKMANSHIP IS GOOD QUALITY AND TRADITIONAL. Attached Images Last edited by VANDOO; 13th February 2007 at 08:29 PM.

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13th February 2007, 07:13 AM	#1
zelbone Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: VISAYAS and MINDANAO Posts: 169	I've got one...not that rare... ...saw a few with the same guard here in Mindanao as well. Unfortunately...most you wouldn't have access to these weapons.

13th February 2007, 01:31 PM	#4
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Rare ? unusual ? less common? ......whatever the outcome....I really like the hilt.. ...the zooamorphic 'pommel' is interesting...do you know what it represents. The 'square' jaw and large eyes puts me off the idea it is a Serpent's head. However, the (metal ?) wavy piece ( not very scientific ) on the guard certainly 'shouts' snake and I'm sure there is significance to the number of 'curves'.

13th February 2007, 01:39 PM	#5
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	As for the guard Bill, i would say perhaps "less common" is the term i would use. I have seen far too many kampilan on eBay with this style guard to consider it "unusual", though yours is i much nicer example than most of the ones i've seen.

13th February 2007, 01:54 PM	#6
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	Thanks, guys. I seem to have gotten into a description situation. I have been quoting a description of this kampilan from Cato's "Moro Swords." These are his words and I should be referencing him. Please see pages 49 and 54 of "Moro Swords." "34. A curved kampilan guard with an unusual thalassic form." When I search for "thalassic" I see the "Free Onine Dictionary" saying: Adj. 1. thalassic - relating to the seas, especially smaller or inland seas;- Scientific American Thinking in this context, I assume the guard looks a bit like a boat. But it could have other meanings. I apologise for not quoting my sources and will be sure to quote them in the future. ---- Bill

13th February 2007, 08:31 PM	#8
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,843	Very helpful post Barry, it is the right name I hope. Your post is clearly floral in decoration. The one Bill post is now clearly waves. Why is there such a distinction in design? I know little of this area except the general terms of Dayak and Sea Dayak which I suspect are rather collector/western terms even if there are communities that live by and from the sea.

15th February 2007, 05:39 PM	#10
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,843	You say tomatoe, I say tomato