Help with talismanic inscriptions?

zelbone · 24th January 2007, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

As Michael already pointed out: it's very, very difficult to assess how much really has been lost. While in most societies worldwide a considerable part of the population has lost intimate knowledge of the "old ways" this doesn't mean that there are not some who still hold it dear and pass it on. However, if it gets down to core beliefs/knowledge/skills in Asia, you basically have to marry into the (right) family to have a ... chance of becoming privy to it - in just about any other constellation one can consider oneself lucky if being considered worthy for some of the stuff you're looking for. Exaggerated? Not that much...

Regards,
Kai

You hit it right on the head...

Dajak · 24th January 2007, 03:20 PM

Hi Michael I did not now that you also Interested in old beliefs
next visit overhere I will show you very special book about the subject
WALI SANGA the javanese secret teaching contains also writings for the silence power and most off the javanese ghost and devils (try to learn Dutch I have a lot off books about the subject)

I now an grandson off an Iban headman (he is living in the Netherlands)
he went back there in the 80 to an special fest no white man invited
and did see there Iban s with fresh tattoo's so some old things never lost

But things that give you power have to be given by an doekoen or shaman

not by just someone that put old symbols on an weapon that is what I mean

( I also never heard or read that sudang moro krris are made whit the same intension as the javanese one if you know a book that says different let me now I like to read it )

like this you can make a kris a nice one but it have no power

But if an kris made by an special man that can put power in it you have an special keris

You now that some old krisses have still power

Like that madjapahid keris I have that have been proven by a few people also one guy that came 2 years ago from Indonesia to the Netherlands
He was invited by the orginisation TONG TONG I think it was on the PASAR MALAM IN DEN HAAG ( Ruud Greve was also there and a lot people did bring their stuff very interesthing)
that can feel if there is any magic or power in subjects from Indonesia
he did feel that there is still very strong power in the keris or chunderik

It does not always be a weapon that have power could be anything

Ben

VVV · 24th January 2007, 04:34 PM

Hi Ben,

Look forward to read the Wali Sanga book.
I have heard about it and even if I don't speak Dutch I can understand most of it by now with some deduction and imagination.
And I have participated, as the only outsider, in exorcistic rites in both East Kalimantan and Negros, Philippines.

Of course Filipino weapons are also believed to have metaphysical powers within them.
Actually I had some of my weapons "spirit-checked" around 9 years ago by a Filipino friend who has experience in those matters. He doesn't like that I collect old, and even worse - used, weapons for that reason.

Michael

Dajak · 24th January 2007, 05:43 PM

Hi Michael I will translate some for you if you want it is from old javanese

books

I had only some bad and some good expirience with my own krisses when I had a collection more than 300 krisses

Ben

VVV · 24th January 2007, 06:20 PM

Thanks Ben,

Michael

Jens Nordlunde · 24th January 2007, 07:37 PM

Hi Michael,

You may, or you may not, have noticed that we have had some kind of the same discussion about Indian weapons.

The subject is very interesting, and I believe that the decoration of weapons means far more that the decorative side. The problem is, that I can’t prove it at the moment. There is a very strong symbolic force in this – and it is very ancient. Although the meaning may be forgotten, the same signs seem to be used. The signs can/will be different, and when designs half forgotten, different artists starts their own interpretation – but it is still there.

It may interest you, that Dr. Ann Feuerberg, who joined the excavations at Marv, is studying the symbolic value of the decorations on hilts and blades. She is one of the first scientists, whom to my knowledge, has take a serious interest in this subject.

Jens

Kan du ha' en god dag

VVV · 24th January 2007, 08:41 PM

Hej Jens,

I wasn't aware of the Indian weapons discussion.
Could you please PM me the link?
Very interesting about the research of Dr Feuerberg.
On Indonesian weapons some research has already been done, mostly on Mandau and Keris. But there is of course a lot left to be researched.

Michael

24th January 2007, 05:43 PM	#4
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	Hi Michael I will translate some for you if you want it is from old javanese books I had only some bad and some good expirience with my own krisses when I had a collection more than 300 krisses Ben Attached Images

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24th January 2007, 03:20 PM	#2
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	Hi Michael I did not now that you also Interested in old beliefs next visit overhere I will show you very special book about the subject WALI SANGA the javanese secret teaching contains also writings for the silence power and most off the javanese ghost and devils (try to learn Dutch I have a lot off books about the subject) I now an grandson off an Iban headman (he is living in the Netherlands) he went back there in the 80 to an special fest no white man invited and did see there Iban s with fresh tattoo's so some old things never lost But things that give you power have to be given by an doekoen or shaman not by just someone that put old symbols on an weapon that is what I mean ( I also never heard or read that sudang moro krris are made whit the same intension as the javanese one if you know a book that says different let me now I like to read it ) like this you can make a kris a nice one but it have no power But if an kris made by an special man that can put power in it you have an special keris You now that some old krisses have still power Like that madjapahid keris I have that have been proven by a few people also one guy that came 2 years ago from Indonesia to the Netherlands He was invited by the orginisation TONG TONG I think it was on the PASAR MALAM IN DEN HAAG ( Ruud Greve was also there and a lot people did bring their stuff very interesthing) that can feel if there is any magic or power in subjects from Indonesia he did feel that there is still very strong power in the keris or chunderik It does not always be a weapon that have power could be anything Ben

24th January 2007, 04:34 PM	#3
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Hi Ben, Look forward to read the Wali Sanga book. I have heard about it and even if I don't speak Dutch I can understand most of it by now with some deduction and imagination. And I have participated, as the only outsider, in exorcistic rites in both East Kalimantan and Negros, Philippines. Of course Filipino weapons are also believed to have metaphysical powers within them. Actually I had some of my weapons "spirit-checked" around 9 years ago by a Filipino friend who has experience in those matters. He doesn't like that I collect old, and even worse - used, weapons for that reason. Michael

24th January 2007, 06:20 PM	#5
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Thanks Ben, Michael

24th January 2007, 07:37 PM	#6
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Hi Michael, You may, or you may not, have noticed that we have had some kind of the same discussion about Indian weapons. The subject is very interesting, and I believe that the decoration of weapons means far more that the decorative side. The problem is, that I can’t prove it at the moment. There is a very strong symbolic force in this – and it is very ancient. Although the meaning may be forgotten, the same signs seem to be used. The signs can/will be different, and when designs half forgotten, different artists starts their own interpretation – but it is still there. It may interest you, that Dr. Ann Feuerberg, who joined the excavations at Marv, is studying the symbolic value of the decorations on hilts and blades. She is one of the first scientists, whom to my knowledge, has take a serious interest in this subject. Jens Kan du ha' en god dag

24th January 2007, 08:41 PM	#7
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Hej Jens, I wasn't aware of the Indian weapons discussion. Could you please PM me the link? Very interesting about the research of Dr Feuerberg. On Indonesian weapons some research has already been done, mostly on Mandau and Keris. But there is of course a lot left to be researched. Michael