African spears. Tourist stuff or genuine weapons?

paolo · 4th January 2007, 11:32 AM

I think my one was a tourist stuff. But I'm interested to your opinion about this other two ( I'll send the pics). One was in an italian official (during 1936 Ethiopian campaign) collection and was catalogued as White Nile area assegai. The other I suppose was used only for ceremonial dances; in its hollow butt must be some iron little balls, that shakin' the spear, make noise.
Regards
Paolo

paolo · 4th January 2007, 11:34 AM

Here are the other pics.
Paolo

Tim Simmons · 4th January 2007, 05:03 PM

These look like real ones to me. I like the White Nile/Ingassana one. The dance spear is very interesting although dare I say a little crude rather than simple. The other one, I can only think it must be the northern extreme of it range of use. Perhaps that is why it does not match the quality of the true Massai type. Especially if you think it was collected in the early 1930s.

paolo · 4th January 2007, 05:23 PM

Tim,
Let me explain better. Only the last two spears were collected in the early 1930s; I bought the Massai type in the early 1970s, (when I was more inexperienced than now) in an ethnic store of my city, and so I presume it probably is a tourist stuff.
Regards and thank you for the inputs
Paolo

Tim Simmons · 4th January 2007, 05:49 PM

Well that seems more like it. It is not terrible, I have seen far worse tourist spears.

katana · 4th January 2007, 07:08 PM

Does anyone know how to ID 'lion spears' that originate from the Masai and those from the Samburu tribe in Kenya ? Or is this a situation where blacksmiths made them to the exact same 'pattern'.

Tim Simmons · 5th January 2007, 04:09 PM

This is interesting. http://www.maasai-association.org/lion.html. If I have read this correctly, the inference is that the spear is thrown, solo or group hunting. Whether this was the same in the past I do not know. The "lion spears" I have all seem far to heavy to throw more than say 10 feet with any accuracy and control. The leaf shaped blade hunting javelin also common to most of East Africa as the "lion spear" type, would be better in my mind? I wonder if "lion spear" is a European view or misinterpretation? Could the lion be a reference to the warrior? It seems such a well traveled and evocative term that is unusually hard to find good information on and verification of lion killing use.

4th January 2007, 11:32 AM	#1
paolo Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 173	I think my one was a tourist stuff. But I'm interested to your opinion about this other two ( I'll send the pics). One was in an italian official (during 1936 Ethiopian campaign) collection and was catalogued as White Nile area assegai. The other I suppose was used only for ceremonial dances; in its hollow butt must be some iron little balls, that shakin' the spear, make noise. Regards Paolo Attached Images

4th January 2007, 11:34 AM	#2
paolo Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 173	Here are the other pics. Paolo Attached Images

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4th January 2007, 05:03 PM	#3
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,922	These look like real ones to me. I like the White Nile/Ingassana one. The dance spear is very interesting although dare I say a little crude rather than simple. The other one, I can only think it must be the northern extreme of it range of use. Perhaps that is why it does not match the quality of the true Massai type. Especially if you think it was collected in the early 1930s.

4th January 2007, 05:23 PM	#4
paolo Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 173	Tim, Let me explain better. Only the last two spears were collected in the early 1930s; I bought the Massai type in the early 1970s, (when I was more inexperienced than now) in an ethnic store of my city, and so I presume it probably is a tourist stuff. Regards and thank you for the inputs Paolo

4th January 2007, 05:49 PM	#5
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,922	Well that seems more like it. It is not terrible, I have seen far worse tourist spears.

4th January 2007, 07:08 PM	#6
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Does anyone know how to ID 'lion spears' that originate from the Masai and those from the Samburu tribe in Kenya ? Or is this a situation where blacksmiths made them to the exact same 'pattern'.

5th January 2007, 04:09 PM	#7
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,922	This is interesting. http://www.maasai-association.org/lion.html. If I have read this correctly, the inference is that the spear is thrown, solo or group hunting. Whether this was the same in the past I do not know. The "lion spears" I have all seem far to heavy to throw more than say 10 feet with any accuracy and control. The leaf shaped blade hunting javelin also common to most of East Africa as the "lion spear" type, would be better in my mind? I wonder if "lion spear" is a European view or misinterpretation? Could the lion be a reference to the warrior? It seems such a well traveled and evocative term that is unusually hard to find good information on and verification of lion killing use.