19th century Moro Barong? Comments please.

katana · 28th December 2006, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Marsh

Hi,

I first saw the side plates with thin, bent metal, and it looked like it was trying to be something it was not. That was what set me off.

Looks like some band is missing around the end of the pommel, but that is incidental. The blade does look good and well-made.

.

Hi Bill,
I do agree that the 'plates' appear thin. Looking at the pic you posted the rivet holding the plate looks like it was peened over again at some time in its life....the rivet has 'spread' to one side and the 'patina' of the plate (in close proximity) is 'bright' suggesting the 'hammer' blow occured more recently. Perhaps this was because it had loosened ? The plate also doesn't follow the contour of the blade (at certain areas) bearing in mind they are a softer metal than the steel I would expect them to match. This is because the plates would be 'roughly edged', then rivetted to the blade and then filed/worked to match the blade edges. In effect the blade would act as a template for the side plates. There is,also, the crease in the plate.
From this circumstantial evidence, I 'postulate' that perhaps the plate became loose, was damaged , then 'tidied up' and then re-rivetted with the original rivet. I also suspect, like you, that there was a band at the pommel end , perhaps this has seen some 'active duty'.......surely a ceremonial piece would have not have been used in such a way that it could be damaged? Unless, some idiot...later in the swords life.....decided to 'abuse' it.

I am sorry to hear of your misfortune.....All the best

David

VANDOO · 28th December 2006, 11:28 PM

THERE APPEARS TO BE PATINA TO THE WOOD AND THE BRASS ,THERE IS NO EVIDENCE OF RECENT CLEANING TO THE PIECE. THE SIDE PLATES APPEAR TO HAVE BEEN PUSHED LOOSE BY RUST BUILDUP UNDER THE COPPER PLATES THAT IS PROBABLY WHY THE RIVET WAS STRUCK. tHE PLATES SHOULD HAVE BEEN REMOVED THE RUST BUILDUP REMOVED AND THE PLATES REATTACHED BUT IF THAT HAD BEEN DONE IT WOULD HAVE MADE THE PIECE APPEAR NEWER OR LIKE IT HAD BEEN MEDDLED WITH. THESE PICES WERE NOT FOR EVERYDAY USE SO WOULD NOT USUALLY AQUIRE A LOT OF WEAR, THEY WERE OFTEN STORED AND NEGLECTED SO RUST COULD BUILD UP A SHARP BLADE WOULD BE EXPECTED ON A USABLE AUTHENTIC EXAMPLE. I WOULD SAY IT IS THE REAL DEAL NOT A HIGH END EXAMPLE BUT NOT THE LOWEST END EITHER PROBABLY WHAT A POORER VILLAGE COULD AFFORD. THE COMPARISON OF MORE COMMON PEOPLES CEREMONIAL ITEMS AND THOSE MADE FOR THE RICH ARE NOT FAIR AS THE COST OF MATERIALS AND QUALITY OF WORKMANSHIP IS ON A DIFFERENT SCALE. I SUSPECT YOUR ITEM IS PROBABLY EARLY 1900'S JUST AS A GUESS NOT HAVING HANDLED IT.

THE PART THAT PUZZLES ME ABOUT THIS IS IF THE SELLER IS SUCH A WELL INFORMED DEALER HOW DID THEY MIS- IDENTIFY THE ITEM SO BADLY SHAME ON THEM!

Battara · 29th December 2006, 01:07 AM

Bill I see what you mean about the brass plates. I think the workmanship is lower on those. It may be real, but a lower quality.

spiral · 29th December 2006, 09:52 AM

when one goes back to early 20th century & Victorean times.

I dont think high quality work always means non tourist,

or indeed that rougher work equals tourist.

It might not be fancy work Bill but it looks a real ethnographic piece to me.

I like it.

Spiral

Bill M · 29th December 2006, 01:09 PM

Thanks for all the comments, folks. I'll keep this piece and enjoy it!

Hope that everyone has a great New Year!

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28th December 2006, 11:28 PM	#2
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	THERE APPEARS TO BE PATINA TO THE WOOD AND THE BRASS ,THERE IS NO EVIDENCE OF RECENT CLEANING TO THE PIECE. THE SIDE PLATES APPEAR TO HAVE BEEN PUSHED LOOSE BY RUST BUILDUP UNDER THE COPPER PLATES THAT IS PROBABLY WHY THE RIVET WAS STRUCK. tHE PLATES SHOULD HAVE BEEN REMOVED THE RUST BUILDUP REMOVED AND THE PLATES REATTACHED BUT IF THAT HAD BEEN DONE IT WOULD HAVE MADE THE PIECE APPEAR NEWER OR LIKE IT HAD BEEN MEDDLED WITH. THESE PICES WERE NOT FOR EVERYDAY USE SO WOULD NOT USUALLY AQUIRE A LOT OF WEAR, THEY WERE OFTEN STORED AND NEGLECTED SO RUST COULD BUILD UP A SHARP BLADE WOULD BE EXPECTED ON A USABLE AUTHENTIC EXAMPLE. I WOULD SAY IT IS THE REAL DEAL NOT A HIGH END EXAMPLE BUT NOT THE LOWEST END EITHER PROBABLY WHAT A POORER VILLAGE COULD AFFORD. THE COMPARISON OF MORE COMMON PEOPLES CEREMONIAL ITEMS AND THOSE MADE FOR THE RICH ARE NOT FAIR AS THE COST OF MATERIALS AND QUALITY OF WORKMANSHIP IS ON A DIFFERENT SCALE. I SUSPECT YOUR ITEM IS PROBABLY EARLY 1900'S JUST AS A GUESS NOT HAVING HANDLED IT. THE PART THAT PUZZLES ME ABOUT THIS IS IF THE SELLER IS SUCH A WELL INFORMED DEALER HOW DID THEY MIS- IDENTIFY THE ITEM SO BADLY SHAME ON THEM!

29th December 2006, 01:07 AM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	Bill I see what you mean about the brass plates. I think the workmanship is lower on those. It may be real, but a lower quality.

29th December 2006, 09:52 AM	#4
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	when one goes back to early 20th century & Victorean times. I dont think high quality work always means non tourist, or indeed that rougher work equals tourist. It might not be fancy work Bill but it looks a real ethnographic piece to me. I like it. Spiral

29th December 2006, 01:09 PM	#5
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	Thanks for all the comments, folks. I'll keep this piece and enjoy it! Hope that everyone has a great New Year!