My First post and First Keris

A. G. Maisey · 21st December 2006, 06:48 PM

Jason, "lilit" is simply Balinese for "twist".

Balinese, Indonesian and Javanese are all separate languages, but there are some words common to all and a degree of overlap,

What you were told is :- "the pamor on your keris is 'twist pamor'---"

The correct Javanese name for the same pamor is "pamor buntel mayat"---'mayat' means slanting or sloping with the suggestion of 'upwards', 'buntel' means wrapping.

The common, but incorrect name for this pamor in Javanese is "pamor buntel mayit"; 'mayit' means corpse, so "pamor corpse wrapping".

Frankly, I would not hesitate to call this pamor "twist pamor".

There is nothing esoteric or exotic in the pamor name as it is in either Balinese or Javanese. There is no meaning that cannot be conveyed by the English language. If I were speaking with somebody in Jawa I would call it "pamor buntel mayat"; in Bali I would call it "pamor lilit"; in English I would call it a twist pamor.

However---the Javanese name seems to indicate that what we usually see presented as this pamor is not what it might have been intended as originally. In the examples of this pamor that we usually see there is no core, the pamor material has simply been twisted. Everybody accepts this as correct, and it is acknowledged that there is no core in a blade with this pamor.

However, if there is no core, what is it that is being wrapped?

In my opinion, this pamor originally did have a core, the same as any other blade.In fact, over the years I have seen one or two very degraded old blades with this pamor, and with a core.

I suspect that what we accept now as usual for pamor buntel mayat is probably a 19th century development.

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21st December 2006, 06:48 PM	#11
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	Jason, "lilit" is simply Balinese for "twist". Balinese, Indonesian and Javanese are all separate languages, but there are some words common to all and a degree of overlap, What you were told is :- "the pamor on your keris is 'twist pamor'---" The correct Javanese name for the same pamor is "pamor buntel mayat"---'mayat' means slanting or sloping with the suggestion of 'upwards', 'buntel' means wrapping. The common, but incorrect name for this pamor in Javanese is "pamor buntel mayit"; 'mayit' means corpse, so "pamor corpse wrapping". Frankly, I would not hesitate to call this pamor "twist pamor". There is nothing esoteric or exotic in the pamor name as it is in either Balinese or Javanese. There is no meaning that cannot be conveyed by the English language. If I were speaking with somebody in Jawa I would call it "pamor buntel mayat"; in Bali I would call it "pamor lilit"; in English I would call it a twist pamor. However---the Javanese name seems to indicate that what we usually see presented as this pamor is not what it might have been intended as originally. In the examples of this pamor that we usually see there is no core, the pamor material has simply been twisted. Everybody accepts this as correct, and it is acknowledged that there is no core in a blade with this pamor. However, if there is no core, what is it that is being wrapped? In my opinion, this pamor originally did have a core, the same as any other blade.In fact, over the years I have seen one or two very degraded old blades with this pamor, and with a core. I suspect that what we accept now as usual for pamor buntel mayat is probably a 19th century development.