Moro or Malaysian Kris?

David · 12th December 2006, 06:08 PM

I have to say that the blade itself looks very Moro to me, though the greneng is very Indo. But it seems that i have seen this more Indo looking greneng on other Moro examples and it may just be something retained on early Moro pieces from it's Indo origins. The sheath on the other hand is just a larger version of a Jawa gayaman style and the hilt doesn't look particularly Moro to me, so i would vote for a Moro blade redressed somewhere in Indonesia.

Rick · 12th December 2006, 06:25 PM

Do we know the dimensions of this sword?

VVV · 12th December 2006, 06:55 PM

Thanks all for your comments.

The Kris is overall 67 cm/26.4 inch with a 52 cm/20.4 inch blade.
I also think that the blade has some age based on the keris-characteristics, light weight and thin blade.
The only place in Indonesia where I know Moro Kris, or Keris Sundang, have been found is Kalimantan, Sulawesi and Sumatra?
And then of course Malaysia is an option?

Michael

Bill M · 15th December 2006, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

I have to say that the blade itself looks very Moro to me, though the greneng is very Indo. But it seems that i have seen this more Indo looking greneng on other Moro examples and it may just be something retained on early Moro pieces from it's Indo origins. The sheath on the other hand is just a larger version of a Jawa gayaman style and the hilt doesn't look particularly Moro to me, so i would vote for a Moro blade redressed somewhere in Indonesia.

Or a Moro blade made by an Indonesian.

I have seen "crossovers" made by Madura smiths working in Java. You get a little of both.

Bill

Battara · 15th December 2006, 06:29 PM

Pommels like this, according to Cato, were made early and are indicative of earlier pieces, 1700s? I think the mounts are later.

VVV · 18th December 2006, 05:34 PM

Just recieved this Christmas card from another collector (not active on the forum).
It's from the Tropenmuseum, Kris from the Sulu archipelago, with a full silver hilt collar resembling mine?

Michael

rasdan · 18th December 2006, 06:19 PM

The one on the card has malay/bugis fittings IMO whatever...and the blade is Sulu(?). This is an example. I had just seen one like this (solid brass hilt) a few weeks back. Its a relative's pusaka. Unfortunately i dont have pictures. Perhaps the key is the difference of the base of the hilt of a moro and malay keris...

VVV · 19th December 2006, 10:57 AM

Thanks all,

Seems to be a consensus that my Kris is of Malay/Bugis, not Moro, origin regarding the dress.
Do you think the blades were imported from the Sulu islands or produced "Sulu style" in Malaysia or Sulawesi?
Or maybe it was the Malay/Sulawesi style of blades that inspired that of the Sulu islands?

Michael

rasdan · 19th December 2006, 04:11 PM

In an old book Tuhfat al Nafis written in 1865, the kampilan and sundang (written as sandang) are attributed to the Sulus. They are not attributed to the Malay or Bugis although it is used by them. Pls correct me if i'm wrong.

A lotta of moro keris are redressed later in malay dress in Malaysia and Sumatra.

18th December 2006, 05:34 PM	#6
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Just recieved this Christmas card from another collector (not active on the forum). It's from the Tropenmuseum, Kris from the Sulu archipelago, with a full silver hilt collar resembling mine? Michael Attached Images

18th December 2006, 06:19 PM	#7
rasdan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kuala Lumpur Posts: 369	The one on the card has malay/bugis fittings IMO whatever...and the blade is Sulu(?). This is an example. I had just seen one like this (solid brass hilt) a few weeks back. Its a relative's pusaka. Unfortunately i dont have pictures. Perhaps the key is the difference of the base of the hilt of a moro and malay keris... Attached Images

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12th December 2006, 06:08 PM	#1
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,250	I have to say that the blade itself looks very Moro to me, though the greneng is very Indo. But it seems that i have seen this more Indo looking greneng on other Moro examples and it may just be something retained on early Moro pieces from it's Indo origins. The sheath on the other hand is just a larger version of a Jawa gayaman style and the hilt doesn't look particularly Moro to me, so i would vote for a Moro blade redressed somewhere in Indonesia.

12th December 2006, 06:25 PM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,376	Do we know the dimensions of this sword?

12th December 2006, 06:55 PM	#3
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Thanks all for your comments. The Kris is overall 67 cm/26.4 inch with a 52 cm/20.4 inch blade. I also think that the blade has some age based on the keris-characteristics, light weight and thin blade. The only place in Indonesia where I know Moro Kris, or Keris Sundang, have been found is Kalimantan, Sulawesi and Sumatra? And then of course Malaysia is an option? Michael

15th December 2006, 06:29 PM	#5
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,345	Pommels like this, according to Cato, were made early and are indicative of earlier pieces, 1700s? I think the mounts are later.

19th December 2006, 10:57 AM	#8
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Thanks all, Seems to be a consensus that my Kris is of Malay/Bugis, not Moro, origin regarding the dress. Do you think the blades were imported from the Sulu islands or produced "Sulu style" in Malaysia or Sulawesi? Or maybe it was the Malay/Sulawesi style of blades that inspired that of the Sulu islands? Michael

19th December 2006, 04:11 PM	#9
rasdan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kuala Lumpur Posts: 369	In an old book Tuhfat al Nafis written in 1865, the kampilan and sundang (written as sandang) are attributed to the Sulus. They are not attributed to the Malay or Bugis although it is used by them. Pls correct me if i'm wrong. A lotta of moro keris are redressed later in malay dress in Malaysia and Sumatra.