Shamshir ?

Emanuel · 8th December 2006, 10:18 PM

Hello again,

How about the broad characteristics of the blade? A long ricasso area and wide blade exemplifies the tulwar, while the yelman is a kilij feature. Does the classical Persian shamshir have either of these? Did Persians commonly use wide blades with yelmans?
I understand these cannot be generalized to all pieces, but do they at least apply to the majority?

Regards,
Emanuel

ariel · 8th December 2006, 10:49 PM

My understanding is that "shamshir" is a generic word for Persian long curved swords, just like "kilij" is a generic Turkish name for a "sword".
Mughal curved swords were mostly called Tulwar. A straight Mughal sword with the Indo-Persian handle was still a Tulwar, and the same blade with a Basket handle was "khanda". If the blade was of Persian origin (see Fiegel) it was a shamshir. A shamshir-type sword was called "Klych" (kilij) in Russia, and the same was true among the Bedouins. A shamshir was called Ajemi Kilij ("Persian Kilij") in Turkey and Yelman-ed sword was called by Persians " Shamshir Torki" ( "Turkish Shamshir"). Each country gave these swords different names, but the pattern was the same.

"What's in a name? That which we call a rose
By any other word would smell as sweet."

"Romeo and Juliet" (II, ii, 1-2)

Shamshirs were of different curvature. Even modestly curved blades were shamshirs. Abbas-period shamshirs were highly curved more often than the earlier samples.

8th December 2006, 10:18 PM	#1
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	[confused emoticon] Hello again, How about the broad characteristics of the blade? A long ricasso area and wide blade exemplifies the tulwar, while the yelman is a kilij feature. Does the classical Persian shamshir have either of these? Did Persians commonly use wide blades with yelmans? I understand these cannot be generalized to all pieces, but do they at least apply to the majority? Regards, Emanuel

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8th December 2006, 10:49 PM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	My understanding is that "shamshir" is a generic word for Persian long curved swords, just like "kilij" is a generic Turkish name for a "sword". Mughal curved swords were mostly called Tulwar. A straight Mughal sword with the Indo-Persian handle was still a Tulwar, and the same blade with a Basket handle was "khanda". If the blade was of Persian origin (see Fiegel) it was a shamshir. A shamshir-type sword was called "Klych" (kilij) in Russia, and the same was true among the Bedouins. A shamshir was called Ajemi Kilij ("Persian Kilij") in Turkey and Yelman-ed sword was called by Persians " Shamshir Torki" ( "Turkish Shamshir"). Each country gave these swords different names, but the pattern was the same. "What's in a name? That which we call a rose By any other word would smell as sweet." "Romeo and Juliet" (II, ii, 1-2) Shamshirs were of different curvature. Even modestly curved blades were shamshirs. Abbas-period shamshirs were highly curved more often than the earlier samples.