my first keris

Alam Shah · 1st December 2006, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

I do not know about composite but I think it sucks!

Hi Tim, the small eBay pictures were misleading.

I was expecting to see two properly formed grooves (sogokan depan and sogokan belakang) at the bottom centre of the blade, not two lines of what seems to be formed by a grinder and looked unfinished.

The nice part of this ensemble is, the hilt ring (pendokok). A Malay Straits model. Although it looks new, it's well-formed.

Rick · 1st December 2006, 02:47 PM

Tim, is this experience going to sour you on keris?

This piece is much better than the first K.L.O. I purchased.

Be of good cheer. <pats Tim on the back>

Rick

Tim Simmons · 1st December 2006, 04:26 PM

No Rick, I am on my guard now. The seller failed to mention the rare "ha ha knobend" pamor

.

Tim Simmons · 1st December 2006, 07:13 PM

I am not trying to pull this back from the abyss but this side of the blade shows some signs of forging and folding so I am not sure it has been wholly ground to shape. It is still brand new though.

Tim Simmons · 1st December 2006, 08:33 PM

I just want to ask now that this is obviously a brand new piece. The quallity is a matter of taste. Does it still represent a composite piece? What would be the point especially if sold to tourists. There are no composite pieces in the collecting of African work, it is said to have neighbouring influences. Composite to me seems to have a collectors tone of disapproval. Do I need to study more?

David · 1st December 2006, 09:30 PM

Tim, i don't believe that composite pieces are ALWAYS to be disapproved of. Sometimes a seller has a few various parts lying around that he slaps together for sale.

Sometimes a keris from one region may end up in the dress of anothet for completely legitimate cultural reasons. If one has moved form, say Jawa, to Bali, they might feel the need to dress their keris in accordance with local custom. Some keris make their way to different islands and trade items and are then dressed locally.
i am not so sure that your piece is composite. The blade is certainly not a well made piece, but it is a forged piece, so i would call it a keris. And Alam Shah is correct to point out that it has a nice pendokok and the sheath seems to be a nice wood. All in all i wouldn't go so far as to say you were mugged. You probably didn't pay too much more that the market value.

drdavid · 1st December 2006, 09:53 PM

Hi Tim, don't worry about this one, there is a significant amount of rubbish sold off as keris, some new made some just old rubbish. Ebay does not seem to be a good place for the novice keris collector, it takes a long while and a lot of knowledge (which I dont have) to differentiate the good from the bad and even longer to split the good from the very good. Keris really are fascinating but if you want a good experience from the start I think you might be best served by finding a reputable dealer rather than relying on the luck of ebay (there was an interesting thread a while ago about 'keris like objects'). Anyway dont give up, like you say we have all bought some absolute duds (

shudders convulsively at the thought of one particularly poor purchase). Maybe we should have a thread on the main board about "trash I have paid for".
cheers
David

A. G. Maisey · 1st December 2006, 10:07 PM

Tim, I look at keris in a somewhat different way to the way in which the other people who contribute to this Forum look at them.

That "somewhat different way" means that I apply different standards to different keris.

What I can see in the pics you have provided is a village quality blade, a fairly decent old wrongko, a fair average quality handle, and a pendongkok that I believe will test as silver.

I can also see the price you paid.

In my opinion you recieved very good value for what you paid.

It is a fact of life that in this world we pretty much get what we pay for. High quality, old is going to cost good money, no matter where it comes from, including ebay. Yes, we all know of the exceptions to this, but those exceptions , to my knowledge, have been achieved by very, very knowledgeable people who are prepared to gamble on something that looks like it might be good, and then get rid of it if it is not.

Sleep easy Tim. You did OK.

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1st December 2006, 02:47 PM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,347	Tim, is this experience going to sour you on keris? This piece is much better than the first K.L.O. I purchased. Be of good cheer. <pats Tim on the back> Rick

1st December 2006, 04:26 PM	#3
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,875	No Rick, I am on my guard now. The seller failed to mention the rare "ha ha knobend" pamor .

1st December 2006, 07:13 PM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,875	I am not trying to pull this back from the abyss but this side of the blade shows some signs of forging and folding so I am not sure it has been wholly ground to shape. It is still brand new though.

1st December 2006, 08:33 PM	#5
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,875	I just want to ask now that this is obviously a brand new piece. The quallity is a matter of taste. Does it still represent a composite piece? What would be the point especially if sold to tourists. There are no composite pieces in the collecting of African work, it is said to have neighbouring influences. Composite to me seems to have a collectors tone of disapproval. Do I need to study more?

1st December 2006, 09:30 PM	#6
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,229	Tim, i don't believe that composite pieces are ALWAYS to be disapproved of. Sometimes a seller has a few various parts lying around that he slaps together for sale. Sometimes a keris from one region may end up in the dress of anothet for completely legitimate cultural reasons. If one has moved form, say Jawa, to Bali, they might feel the need to dress their keris in accordance with local custom. Some keris make their way to different islands and trade items and are then dressed locally. i am not so sure that your piece is composite. The blade is certainly not a well made piece, but it is a forged piece, so i would call it a keris. And Alam Shah is correct to point out that it has a nice pendokok and the sheath seems to be a nice wood. All in all i wouldn't go so far as to say you were mugged. You probably didn't pay too much more that the market value.

1st December 2006, 09:53 PM	#7
drdavid Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 372	Hi Tim, don't worry about this one, there is a significant amount of rubbish sold off as keris, some new made some just old rubbish. Ebay does not seem to be a good place for the novice keris collector, it takes a long while and a lot of knowledge (which I dont have) to differentiate the good from the bad and even longer to split the good from the very good. Keris really are fascinating but if you want a good experience from the start I think you might be best served by finding a reputable dealer rather than relying on the luck of ebay (there was an interesting thread a while ago about 'keris like objects'). Anyway dont give up, like you say we have all bought some absolute duds ( shudders convulsively at the thought of one particularly poor purchase). Maybe we should have a thread on the main board about "trash I have paid for". cheers David

1st December 2006, 10:07 PM	#8
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,048	Tim, I look at keris in a somewhat different way to the way in which the other people who contribute to this Forum look at them. That "somewhat different way" means that I apply different standards to different keris. What I can see in the pics you have provided is a village quality blade, a fairly decent old wrongko, a fair average quality handle, and a pendongkok that I believe will test as silver. I can also see the price you paid. In my opinion you recieved very good value for what you paid. It is a fact of life that in this world we pretty much get what we pay for. High quality, old is going to cost good money, no matter where it comes from, including ebay. Yes, we all know of the exceptions to this, but those exceptions , to my knowledge, have been achieved by very, very knowledgeable people who are prepared to gamble on something that looks like it might be good, and then get rid of it if it is not. Sleep easy Tim. You did OK.