Fencing with Sabers

[LabanTayo]

Ariel,
Is this book written in Polish?
Sounds like a really interesting book and I love the idea behind it!!!

I am in no way qualified to give my opinions of what is written, since the art and swords behind the research is not my forte. I still love the thought of it!!!

[ariel]

It is in Polish but there is a brief English synopsis.

[LabanTayo]

I will have to start looking for it online. Do you know of anywhere in the states to buy it?

[ariel]

Ask Wolviex on this Forum. The best source by far!

[Rivkin]

Well, If one wishes, one can raise many counterpoints to this study, starting with the fact that he did not train with shamshir and therefore might have misundertood the nature of shamshir fencing. However since there is not a single person alive who "really" knows how to use shamshir (i.e. studied under Shah Abbas or something), I guess this comment can be applied to any study of shamshirs.

Attached are a few drawings (c) by Nakov - unsheathing shashka, circular cut, correct way to hold the grip.

[spiral]

So the Polish auther states...

That the Polish saber is "one of the best and most versatile sabers of the world."


mmmmmmm A Slight national pride involved in his oppinion perhaps?

Or with greater benifit of the doubt, perhaps familarity over many years with the style affecting his judgment slightly?

Sounds an intresting work though.

Spiral

[wolviex]

Thanks for the intrinsting thread Ariel!
There was a post started by me on Polish hussars sabre link
so if someone is interest just take a look here.

I'll pass comment now, because of hell I have around for the next few days, so I'll wait until I can take a breath.

The book by Zablocki mentioned by Ariel is quite rare and highly expensive even in Poland, with prices deffinietely over 40$, not mention shipment fees for overseas countries. But if someone really needs the book (which is full of pictures of sabres with measurements) just let me know, I'll do my best, thought it's not easy (I even stopped selling the title on ebay months ago).

Regards!
Michal

[S.Al-Anizi]

Very interesting ariel, thanks for the heads up, I always like the idea of comparing the different types of sabres in the world. Anyway, is there a place where I could buy that book?

As to the shamshir, I always thought that had too much of curve, to use for anything other than swinging cuts from horseback.

Also, if that's too much to ask, where did Mr. Zablocki place arabian swords, and what he commented about them?

[ariel]

Originally Posted by spiral

So the Polish auther states...

That the Polish saber is "one of the best and most versatile sabers of the world."


mmmmmmm A Slight national pride involved in his oppinion perhaps?

Or with greater benifit of the doubt, perhaps familarity over many years with the style affecting his judgment slightly?

Sounds an intresting work though.

Spiral

Surely, there was a lot of national pride and there is, indeed, something to be proud of! However, he also values Swiss cavalry sabers very highly.
I handled a couple of Polish Hussar sabers and they are a dream! The balance is perfect, the thumb ring allows one an almost microscopic degree of blade control and thrusting is easily accomplished. Importantly, the limited curve allows one to use the very point of the blade and even a slight facial cut would disorient the opponent and allow the definitive movement to be made.
I also agree with him and Saqr about shamshirs: they are far too curved. What it means in practice, the percussion point is too far from the tip. It is ideally suited for mowing down fleeing infantry enemies from the horseback because the height of their heads and torsos will match perfectly the distance to the percussion point. However, the blade's point (tip) is so far behind that to use it one needs to overextend the arm and even twist the wrist down. In a one-on-one combat that would mean opening the head and the right arm completely with no possibility of quick recovery. Also, the thrust is virtually impossible, because the axis of the arm and that of the blade can not coincide under any circumstances.

[spiral]

Originally Posted by ariel

Surely, there was a lot of national pride and there is, indeed, something to be proud of! However, he also values Swiss cavalry sabers very highly.
I handled a couple of Polish Hussar sabers and they are a dream! The balance is perfect, the thumb ring allows one an almost microscopic degree of blade control and thrusting is easily accomplished. Importantly, the limited curve allows one to use the very point of the blade and even a slight facial cut would disorient the opponent and allow the definitive movement to be made.
I also agree with him and Saqr about shamshirs: they are far too curved. What it means in practice, the percussion point is too far from the tip. It is ideally suited for mowing down fleeing infantry enemies from the horseback because the height of their heads and torsos will match perfectly the distance to the percussion point. However, the blade's point (tip) is so far behind that to use it one needs to overextend the arm and even twist the wrist down. In a one-on-one combat that would mean opening the head and the right arm completely with no possibility of quick recovery. Also, the thrust is virtually impossible, because the axis of the arm and that of the blade can not coincide under any circumstances.

Thankyou, I must admit I havent handled a Polish Sabre, they do sound interesting from your discription.


I have a curved Afghan /uzbekistan sabre which while not as extreme of curve as some shamshir, but is still deafinatly heading for that catogary but Ive found if one turns it tip down instead of tip up it would thrust very well, & turning the wrist to turn the blade horizontal in a swing helps slow & allows me to redirect it. {Of ourse this implys no handgaurd parralel to the grip.}

Ive only had it a couple of months so I would guess people who grew up & trained using them may have other tecniques to minimise the percieved disadvatages some western trained swordsmen may percieve?

That said, it curve miust have been made for someone of the exact reach & movement as myself. Which Obviously doesnt always occur when we pick up old swords built for others.

Spiral